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A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

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Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.

And a million dollars of studio equipment to record it

Close mic it with a SM57 like your favorite recordings probably did. You don't need any fancy room treatment when close micing. Or just run the direct input through an amp sim and cab impulse response. Unless you're going for a 1950s sound where mechanical speaker distortion actually matters, IRs capture the cab/mic sound very well.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.

Jim Lill has a video testing amp tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk It's almost entirely EQ and distortion, applied in various orders (the exact signal chain matters, because EQ after distortion sounds different than distortion after EQ). By getting this right you can simulate any tube amp tone with solid state to a high degree of accuracy.

Sure but it’s only been relatively recently that the modeling and solid state stuff has gotten close. And even then, it’s still not quite right. Also, even a good solid state or modeling amp is gonna cost a decent amount. Luckily, we have more choices than ever, and I even have a tube powered preamp that’s absolutely killer paired with an IR cab response loader.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#63
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier" setup that you recommend? Honest question.

You can't go wrong with a Yamaha Pacifica, although you'll pay closer to €250 - the build quality is consistently excellent and the 112J is extremely versatile. Harley Benton (Thomann's house brand) offer a very wide range of guitars at under €200 with shockingly good specifications, but the quality control is a bit more patchy, so I'd suggest getting a guitar-playing friend to look it over or paying a local guitar s…

Seconding Harley Benton and the Positive Grid. I bought an HB-35 B Stock (a return) and a Positive Grid Spark Go (I'm a bedroom player atm). With setup, the whole thing set me back 350 USD.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#65
post #3

The owner is the grandson of the Ziff Davis fortune. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziff_Davis (Popular Electronics, PC Mag, ZDNET, etc.)

The article also says that William Ziff Jr. sold the computer magazines when his son, Dirk, didn’t want to run them.

He’s worth $7 billion, now.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#66
post #21
post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

> You’ll find people in every hobby who are more into the gear than the actual activity Honestly, that’s part of the fun for some of us, even early on. I’ve been playing guitar for a while now, and while I enjoy it, the repetitive nature can sometimes get dull. Exploring new gear and chasing different tones has been my way of breaking through those ruts. Yes, it’s expensive and it eats into practice time — no doubt.…

Don't get me wrong here, I am deeply interested in gear and sound, after all I design and build my own modular synthesizer modules, guitar pedals, speaker cabinets and so on.

So the reality of what forms a sound matters to me because I like to be in control of the result. And that means that I can't rely on the countless wrong poetic fantasies of people in the market to sell more gear, consisting of cosmetic stuff that doesn't impact the sound.

That does not mean I spend no time researching gear, quite the opposite. I just complained that what people think impacts their sound isn't what actually impacts their sound, because they have been given factually wrong mental models. And I know they are factually wrong because I experimented with applying them in practise.

E.g. one laughable mental model is sound per material analogy. You use silver in a cable (a good conductor at least), so that must therefore make for a "silvery" tone (typically they hear that in the high frequency range somewhere). Oh no the manufacturer used metal in the speaker enclosure? So now it sounds metallic and sterile. They used wood? Warm and rich. They used spongy mushrooms? Probably very psychadelic, you get the idea. Reasoning on the level of a kindergardener.

And that is it. No measurement, no blind A/B test, just mumbo-jumbo and fools who swear they could hear the gras grow if someone just tells them there was gras growing while the lawn is made of plastic.

For silver cables you can do a null test. Run the same signal through 5m of copper and 5m of silver and subtract one from another, while carefully making sure the levels match. The difference will be some noise down there at the edge of your audio interfaces recording capabilities. And that difference is absolutely inaudible. But what about the different higher conductivity of silver? Just use more copper. If there is any topic we know a ton about it is how electrons transmit charge in conducters and so far no impactful special frequency and dynamic-changing properties have been found in a piece of wire.

Meanwhile everybody skips room acoustics, cause that is boring and labour intensive and involves having to understand how complex sound behaves in confined spaces and how to measure that. And lets not ponder why Hifi people use unbalanced connections..

It is easier to sell someone highly pure silver cables than it is to sell them bass absorber their room would actually need to listen to the music some sound engineers mixed in decades ago on NS-10s.

TL;DR: I just find it sad that people can't just enjoy music listening or music making without buying into esotheric nonsense that does not describe reality as it is. Music is already magical. The hear it is made on and the stuff it is played back on is purely physical however. And that does not take away from the magic, IMO it adds to it.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#67
post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

> Did you know wood has next to no influence on the sound of an electrical guitar, despite being called "tonewood" by the press?

Yes it does. I have two EC-1000s made in the same factory with the same electronics that sound different because one has a maple top and neck whereas the other is straight mahogany. I have two guitars from another brand with similar (but not identical) construction that sound different because one's made out of ABS plastic instead of plywood like the other. Hell, I've swapped necks on a guitar or two and that had a fairly pronounced effect on sound too. I think this "counter-myth" has blossomed because people are tired of the cork-sniffery about collector grade PRSes and such. As a guy that plays sub-$1000 guitars that are modded to hell and back for live use I don't blame them one bit for being put off by some of the more ridiculous internet discourse around collector's grade instruments.

That being said pretty much everything affects the tonality of an electric guitar even before you get into the signal chain. To me the more pertinent questions are whether 1) more expensive or exotic woods consistently sound "better" and 2) wood is the biggest contributor to the tonality of a solid-body guitar. I would answer "no" to both of those but then again I haven't played a tube amp live in the past decade so I clearly have no taste :o).

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Justin Sandercoe (Justin Guitar on YouTube) did a series[1] where he bought the cheapest electric guitar on Amazon (£60 I think) and then had a guitar tech friend of his do a complete setup. Many times through the series both Justin and the tech remarked at how good the £60 guitar is. The problem with buying an inexpensive guitar is mostly psychological. Do you really want to pay for a $200 setup on a $100 guitar? Pe…

Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.

iirc a 50W JCM800 into a Peavey 4x12

The heads aren't so cheap these days, but not particularly hard to come by

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#69
post #35

As a guitar player, it's nice to see at least some of these guitars get played. I'm old enough to remember when old Les Pauls, Strats, and archtops were cheap. Had I known then what they would eventually have been worth, I would have begged my parents for the money to buy a couple of them. Oh, well.

I'm going long on offsets.

Deep cut

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#70
post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

Yep. I have a genuine 1959 Strat that feels and sounds amazing. I also have a 2024 Squier Debut that goes for $130 new and sounds every bit as good, though it doesn’t feel as nice. Action is perfect and it stays in tune.
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