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The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

grimoiremanor.substack.com

61–69 of 69 posts

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#61
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing but this new era brought its share of issues that didn't exist before, from social fame anxiety, sexuality/gender anxiety, news doomscrolling .. Also, sadly, psychology is hyper relativistic.. the same person with a different psychological education can become suicidal or give zero damn about the same situation.

There is no evidence this is a new era, rather then just one on which those things are actually talked about. Gay people existed well before smartphones, you don't think sexuality anxiety might've been a significant issue for people in less tolerant societies?

Not in the same way at all. People knew it was rejected so you live your fake life and hide your desires for when / where you can. Now it's a question whether people should or shouldn't accept you, you spend more time in indecision and worries. People might suffer, but not the same.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#62
post #34

Anecdotally, almost everyone I know laments the decline of real social contact in recent years, and everywhere I go, people are buried in their phones, ignoring the real world around them. Social media discourse is more toxic than ever, and yet it continues to be a major aspect of people’s social contact. For sake of argument, let’s say the issue is their families. Why are so many families turning out to be harmful e…

"It's not the phones, it's the parents (who are on their phones nearly as much)"

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#63

Suicide rate is a strange metric to choose here. I believe smartphones are exceptionally damaging to teens, but the biggest effect is around their attention span and motivation. The biggest mental health effect is the ADHD epidemic it's bringing on.

Tiktok especially.

The only time I have ever seen Tiktok videos is from dating someone younger and watching them engage with Tiktok over their shoulder out of curiosity.

To me, it felt like my brain was being scrambled. The worst part was I could tell they were addicted to that same feeling.

It is not really fair if a person is addicted to having their brain scrambled while I found the experience absolutely horrendous.

If I engage with Tolstoy/Dostoevsky audiobooks in my free time instead of having my brain scrambled, there is obviously going to be huge carry over to all sorts of other activities. Focusing at work is just one of them.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#64
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah; this all rings pretty sound to me. I've worked with 14-17 year olds most of my adult life and everything comes down to how the kid does in their "home" environment. More specifically, how their closest people treat them, rather than any action they are taking. Kids - even 17 year olds - are infantalized and treated as if they don't have anything to contribute. They are "supposed" to just do what they are told a…

I suspect you are cherry-picking. Not that your observations are wrong, but your validating kids seems like something that is very important a set of kids that I could see someone having a job dealing with, but that doesn't mean all kids need that - the set that doesn't isn't the set you will be working with. > A school where they aren't allowed to learn about what they are interested in, and can only learn the gover…

The kids I worked with were engaged in an entertainment opportunity, rather than some kind of mentorship for troubled youths, or scholarship. I worked with posh little kiddos and literal charity cases (kids enrolled via charity organizations) and everything in between. Some kids were "forced" to be there, some kids weren't. Some kids were physically healthy, some kids were ailed.

I won't belabor the point, but while I will always provide for bias in my consideration, my sample subjects are the absolute least of my concerns. It was a wide enough variety, and I've compared it to enough adult-oriented psychoanalytical literature, that I feel comfortable speaking confidently about it.

As far as needing to be careful, I agree! We should ALWAYS be careful when doing things in the interest of other people and children especially. I fully support mandatory learning because even aside from practical skills, an ignorant populace is empirically more likely to foment and tolerate a fascist government. I think kids should be forced to learn all kinds of things, and a much wider variety of things than we currently teach. Where I make the distinction is that I think they should also be ALLOWED to learn the things they WANT to learn. By which I mean we shouldn't just tolerate it, we should make explicit space for it. Whatever it is. And that can be distasteful to a lot of people, but the situation - now - is that a kid CAN learn about anything they want to learn about, via the internet, so your option is to facilitate that curiosity into either satisfied disinterest or an upstanding pursuit, or to calcify it as a taboo.

It may be audacious to talk to kids in graphic or sensational terms about violence, but when their school getting shot up is a real daily possibility, it's disingenuous to NOT talk about it. THEY will be talking about it. So when YOU don't talk about it, they can feel how artificial it seems, just like anyone else.

So, yes: learn arithmetic, so you can learn algebra, so you can learn geometry, so you can learn physics. But if we have to cut chemistry to make room for some individual learning time, let's do it. Shove the practical parts of it into a cooking class and leave anything more complex to higher or elective ed.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#65
post #34

Anecdotally, almost everyone I know laments the decline of real social contact in recent years, and everywhere I go, people are buried in their phones, ignoring the real world around them. Social media discourse is more toxic than ever, and yet it continues to be a major aspect of people’s social contact. For sake of argument, let’s say the issue is their families. Why are so many families turning out to be harmful e…

"It's not the phones, it's the parents (who are on their phones nearly as much)"

I recently bought a Rugrats Comic Book. Re-imagined for modern times, it shows how the babies are "being watched" by some all-knowing entity while the adults are absent in their formative years.

SPOILER ALERT BELOW.

The comic is a criticism of surveillance devices on children and the smartphone addiction of adults. (Even the adults were zombified in their interactions with each other.) Tommy's solution was to rally the babies to drown all devices in water -- and to continue breaking them until their parents gave up buying new ones.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#66
post #15

First it was rock and roll, then video games, then cell phones. When all along it’s been lack of mental health care in general. This shouldn’t be a surprise.

Whenever I see arguments about past scapegoats, something about them doesn’t sit right with me. Some things today are simply more addictive than others—and often deliberately designed that way by large corporations. More importantly, they’re everywhere and carry intense peer pressure. I never experienced that with the things people used to worry about. I listened to a lot of so-called “devil’s music” and played plent…

The false equivalence is always striking, and your reasonable counterargument usually gets dismissed too. I wish I could unravel the mysteries behind our peers defending the status quo so much.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#67
post #34

Anecdotally, almost everyone I know laments the decline of real social contact in recent years, and everywhere I go, people are buried in their phones, ignoring the real world around them. Social media discourse is more toxic than ever, and yet it continues to be a major aspect of people’s social contact. For sake of argument, let’s say the issue is their families. Why are so many families turning out to be harmful e…

I've noticed people make much less eye contact with strangers, when I was young I only ever saw that in NYC (I imagines the same in other big cities). Today I see that everywhere except the boonies, smaller than small towns.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#68
post #55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why teen suicide rate is the definitive measure of how well children are doing. It's still extremely rare. Why not focus on anti-depressants? Surely kids being on a lot of meds is a sign something is off. Everyone knows phones are a net negative for most children. You really don't need a study. Just go check out a local bus stop and see kids staring at their phones. > The median amount of time a teenager…

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use suicide rates as a sole metric for mental health crises by demographic population.

That's what TFA is arguing we should do.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#69

Suicide rate is a strange metric to choose here. I believe smartphones are exceptionally damaging to teens, but the biggest effect is around their attention span and motivation. The biggest mental health effect is the ADHD epidemic it's bringing on.

I would say the real culprit is the dramatic decrease of teenagers using tobacco products. A quarter of high schoolers would use cigarettes regularly 20 years ago, but that number is now more like one in fifty.

It is well known that nicotine, as a stimulant, improves several ADHD symptoms (ex. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009130570...). It also improves negative symptoms in schizophrenia which is why they tend to smoke much more than the average population. Since smoking is very uncommon nowadays I feel like the people who would have self-medicated (i.e. a pack of cigs a day) in the past don't exist anymore. How many high schoolers have you met who smoke a pack of cigs?

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