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To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

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Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#62
post #53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think OWS came close to revolution you should switch the brand that you're smoking, it's not good for you :) OWS was completely insignificant movement without goals, purpose, ideology, leadership, ability or understanding of anything that happens in the society. It was overhyped, mostly by sensation-seeking reporters that want clicks/eyeballs to run ads and by leftist press outlets because they wanted their ow…

You've misread -- `stinos' isn't the one saying these things, he's quoting a Belgian journalist. He disclaimed that he doesn't know if these are accurate depictions and asked HN for comment.

exactly. Though the fact smsm42 claims it was overhyped seems to prove the point on the way the media reports.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#63
I'm probably going to be modded down like crazy for this; just remember it's not a rant, I'm just sharing my perception of America as a whole. Hopefully you'll see some value in an outside opinion :)

DISCLAIMER: I'm writing this based in a view of "average" America. HN readers are most likely far from the average. It's a view shared by many younger (TL;DR: European views US as being backwards, socially underdeveloped. Geared for the rich. But with great TV, films and software companies. And the "average" American is 55, Obese, and thinks that Paris is a short stroll from the center of London (that might tainted be because I lived near Stratford-upon-Avon, which is a honey pot for dumb but wealthy Boomers on their first trip outside of the US).

I'm British, moved to The Netherlands at 26 (I'm now 32). I've travelled all over the world, US (see below), Scandinavia, most of Europe, Africa and Asia.

My perception of the US is that it's like a big company: they've been the boss for so long that they have forgotten to improve. Sure, in the 1960s they were the best at everything. Only the world has moved on, and in reality they're quickly turning into a dinosaur.

From what I've seen of Americans, their ideas are stuck very much in the 1900s. They're hierarchical, the system is tailored to the factory owners.

The lower class have been conditioned to think that faux sweat-shop working conditions (40+ hour working weeks) are a good thing. They don't have vacations. They can be sacked pretty much at will. Healthcare is fubar. There's a complete lack of empathy and realism. Which is strange from a land which claims to be "Christian".

The Americans I speak to seem to fall into two groups: those brainwashed into believing that if they work themselves to death they'll "get rich", or those who're just plain religious lunatics who've thus been conditioned to "suffer" for their "faith".

The only two areas where I see the US leading are in Computing and Entertainment; and this is more a function of the US speaking one language than it is anything inherent in the attitude or politics.

Now for something completely anecdotal:

I live in the Netherlands. I have a nice house. It's smaller than the American norm, but our land is smaller. It's better built (brick instead of wood).

I have a good job, earn a good salary (3x norm). In the US I'd earn three to five times as much - but that's more a function of the market than society (higher demand in US). I work a 38 hour week, and have 25 days holiday (+ 6-8 public holidays).

My health insurance costs $150/month, and isn't connected to my employer.

My employer can't just sack me. If I were to become unemployed, I'd get enough in welfare to live comfortably. If I'm injured, and unable to work, then I receive 70% of my salary plus the state benefits (which include the healthcare).

I pay lots of tax: 40% of my salary, 21% on anything I buy (except for cars, they have a 40% tax-rate, and food which is 6%), 70% of the cost of my fuel, and $100/month car tax. $100/month in local government fees. I can claw back $300 of tax a month on mortgage interest - it'd be much more if I'd have bought a bigger place (didn't seem wise at the time, we bought in 2007, at the peak).

I had a decent education in the UK, but I'm an outlier: because I got severally bullied (my parents were religious, evangelical Christians, and the UK's main religion is a Atheism) I missed my last year of Highschool (still score in the top 10% of the exams, top 5% in the STEM) and have educated myself to University-level via the Open University (and it helps having a decent IQ ~146 in the Mensa test, for what it's worth). I speak fluent Dutch (one of the harder languages to learn. Oh, and I still have an inferiority complex because I can't help but compare myself to the brilliant people here, and I aspire to top my field :)

My wife had a fantastic education in the Netherlands, and - together with all other people in her field - is better qualified than any American (she's a Pharmacist, in the Netherlands they're as well educated as medical doctors; pharmaceutical decisions are made by the specialists here, not just by the doctors).

I can go into town, to a coffee shop, and smoke a joint. I won't be arrested. I won't do it. But if I drive 50 miles to the East I would be (European insanity).

I have choice of cable/ASDL providers. Almost everyone here has >10mb/s internet. I have choice out of lots of mobile providers. Only if I travel 50 miles to the East, 100 miles to the South or 200 miles to the West it gets expensive (because the idea of the United States of Europe has failed in the face of capitalism).

I can cycle to work. Or to town. Without going on the roads, because there are cycle tracks everywhere. Lots of people do. But I'm too out of shape to do it. I probably should, because I'm overweight.

* I've been to Florida & NYC; they were like two different countries.

* Florida (1995) was a shit hole full of rude and ignorant people with plastic smiles. The officials at the airport were assholes, they treated the black and Asian foreigners like dirt. The people who weren't being assholes were all astonished to hear my British accent, they loved how quaint and foreign it sounded, "just like Monty Python" and "just like the Beatles" apparently (I sound nothing like either).

* NYC (2008) is fantasic. The people were friendly, they didn't patronise you. The police were friendly and helpful. The people at the Airport were great - nicer than they are in London Heathrow. That was the biggest surprise of all, and says the most about New York.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#64
post #13

One area where we lag behind the rest of the world is our voting system. In 1992 Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote because Perot split the Republicans. In 2000 Bush was elected with 48% because Nader split the Democrats. This kind of voting system has been mathematically proven to create a two-party system (Duverger's Law). In many other countries they use runoff voting, so if no one gets 50%, they hold anothe…

One thing I've never seen answered: Has anyone actually stopped to figure out how multi-party systems really scale? India is the largest in the world, but also A) has Euro-style population density and B) is maybe not such a great example of a functioning representative government. France and Germany are better examples of governments that mostly work, but are dealing with a fraction of the US population and order-of-…

Furthermore, the lack of discipline of US parties has to be taken into consideration. They're basically coalitions in which factions compete for power and influence through primaries and financing while in France everyone knows the minor center-left parties (the Greens for instance) will participate in a coalition led by the Socialist Party. The negociation on the inclusion of this or that topic in the common platform are formal.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#65
post #59
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And is bankrupt France really a country to emulate Yes, it really is. Its people are happier, healthier, and better educated; they work less, eat better and have better relationships with their families. And are substantially less indebted than those of the US.

The French would all be speaking German today if we (USA) had emulated them in the last century.

How so? Maybe if the USA was healthier and less depressed you'd have joined the war from the get-go rather than staying in bed for the first four years. But even if you'd stayed out entirely it wouldn't have delayed the soviet defeat of Germany overmuch. If you were talking about France's failure to defend Indochina you might have more of a point, but the US doesn't exactly have a great record there either.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#66
post #59
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And is bankrupt France really a country to emulate Yes, it really is. Its people are happier, healthier, and better educated; they work less, eat better and have better relationships with their families. And are substantially less indebted than those of the US.

The French would all be speaking German today if we (USA) had emulated them in the last century.

If you're talking about the allied victory in WWII, the soviets inflicted the vast majority of damage against the Germans.

It's also quite disingenuous to bring up lazy stereotypes in a discussion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4508901.stm

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#67
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've never seen answered: Has anyone actually stopped to figure out how multi-party systems really scale? India is the largest in the world, but also A) has Euro-style population density and B) is maybe not such a great example of a functioning representative government. France and Germany are better examples of governments that mostly work, but are dealing with a fraction of the US population and order-of-…

France and Germany are not so two-party. In the 53 years of France's current government, they have elected presidents from four parties. In the 22 years since German reunification, they have had presidents from three parties and one independent. Meanwhile, in the last 159 years, the US has only had Democrats and Republicans. Also, even if minor parties do not get elected, they offer healthy competition and keep the m…

>France and Germany are not so two-party. In the 53 years of France's current government, they have elected presidents from four parties.

It's really two and a half. De Gaulle - Pompidou - Chirac -Sarkozy were part of the same party that morphed and changed names everytime there was a new leader. Miterrand - Hollande are the other. Giscard was a one-term president from a party that has always been a junior partner of Main Right-Center party. So he's the half.

And German presidents don't count. You have to look at the Chancellor. It has been CDU or SDP since 1945 except for nine days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chancellors_of_Germany

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#68
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying short-term discounts and freebies are unheard of in USA? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/02/national-donut-day-... https://www.facebook.com/events/353010928105586 There are many more examples of stuff regularly given out by companies for free, it's just two things I could remember immediately due to you mentioning "sugar holiday" :)

Heh...you really do need to visit Turkey. Turkcell didn't advertise that they were giving everyone unlimited texts. There was no article in the national paper about Turkcell giving unlimited texts. They did it because it was proper, and hospitable. In short, Turkish hospitality is very different from the examples you gave. Trust me, if you ever care to visit Ankara, tell me and I will show you Turkish hospitality. (O…

I have visited Turkey in the past briefly, and it was nice, though I did not notice any special hospitality not encountered in other places. Maybe I just wasn't lucky.

Unfortunately, since I'm Jewish I'm not sure it would be wise for me to visit Turkey again now, due to recent developments... it seems like the hospitality for me might be a bit limited now. http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&... http://jcpa.org/article/present-day-anti-semitism-in-turkey/

Maybe sometime in the future... Sorry for getting a bit off-topic here.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh...you really do need to visit Turkey. Turkcell didn't advertise that they were giving everyone unlimited texts. There was no article in the national paper about Turkcell giving unlimited texts. They did it because it was proper, and hospitable. In short, Turkish hospitality is very different from the examples you gave. Trust me, if you ever care to visit Ankara, tell me and I will show you Turkish hospitality. (O…

I have visited Turkey in the past briefly, and it was nice, though I did not notice any special hospitality not encountered in other places. Maybe I just wasn't lucky. Unfortunately, since I'm Jewish I'm not sure it would be wise for me to visit Turkey again now, due to recent developments... it seems like the hospitality for me might be a bit limited now. http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&.…

Off topic indeed, but this year's Eurovision singer from Turkey was Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_Bonomo). Not to say there isn't anti-semitism, but I think it is much less in Turkey than you might think.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#70
I've told people to leave the US before on HN, and got downvoted, so I won't.

America's #1 problem is that solutions that work are often fairly labelled socialist, because they are, and thus they immediately lose all popular support, because for some reason, you are all mentally still fighting the cold war?! (So are the Russians, but that's beside the point.)

"Socialism" needs to stop being pejorative. You're trapped by political language as much as insularity and self-regard.

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