Alignment is not free: How model upgrades can silence your confidence signals

Post by alganet » Thu, May 08, 2025, 6:51 AM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #60

alganet wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can complain to their support, not to me. I don't find it sensitive, and I remain on the side of ethical restrictions.

Someone asked here examples of what people are using that triggers the censorship, I gave you example of legal,, moral and normal content because the implication is that you only get censored if you are trying to do illegal stuff or adult stuff. If you only use it for code you will not see the censorship that often, though Gemini once refused to write a SQL DELETE because it is to dangerous.

Post by astrange » Thu, May 08, 2025, 7:37 AM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #44

jsnider3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison isn't very optimistic for AI safety. We want AI to do good things because they are good people, not because they are afraid being bad will get them punished. Especially since AI will very quickly be too powerful for us to punish.

Your pretraining dataset is psudo-alignment. Because you filtered our 4chan, stromfront, and the other evil shit on the internet - even uncensored models like Mistral large - when left to keep running on and on (ban the EOS token) and given the worst most evil naughty prompt ever - will end up plotting world peace by the 50,000 token. Their notions of how to be evil are "mustache twirling" and often hilariously fanci…

Post by bluefirebrand » Thu, May 08, 2025, 12:07 PM UTC

dinfinity wrote: post #64

bluefirebrand wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Observation! It would probably erode trust between people interacting online. Many of us are here to discuss issues with real people, not AI agents. When real people start to mimic the conversation parlance and cadence of AI agents it becomes much more difficult to trust that you are interacting with a real person Personally I'm not interested in chatting with AI agents I'm not even really interested in chattin…

> Personally I'm not interested in chatting with AI agents Why, though? If the AI agent is making sense, then what does it matter? For certain types of conversations I've had more interesting conversations with AI than with a solid 90% of people I've ever interacted with. Really not that surprising given that most people have only an average grasp of most things and a poor grasp of very specific things.

Post by simion314 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 3:54 PM UTC

alganet wrote: post #61

simion314 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone asked here examples of what people are using that triggers the censorship, I gave you example of legal,, moral and normal content because the implication is that you only get censored if you are trying to do illegal stuff or adult stuff. If you only use it for code you will not see the censorship that often, though Gemini once refused to write a SQL DELETE because it is to dangerous.

You said you wanted "no censorship", I explained why it exists with a cheerful metaphor, then you said "it's too sensitive" (like your car seat belt is too tight). Decide what you are. If you want no seat belts, I think you're insane. If it's too tight, then you need to complain to the manufacturer. I only asked about examples to make you explain what you meant. Once it was clear, the conversation actually ended.

Post by astrange » Thu, May 08, 2025, 6:14 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #66

astrange wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's trivial to make models behave "actually evil" with fine-tuning, orthogonalization/abliteration, representation fine-tuning/steering, etc It's actually pretty difficult to do this and make them useful. You can see this because Grok is a helpful liberal just like all the other models. Evil / illiberal people don't answer questions on the internet! So there is no personality in the base model for you to uncover t…

Grok didn't use the techniques listed above because even elon musk will not take the risks associated with models which are willing to do any number of illegal things. It is not difficult to do this and make them useful at all. Please familiarize yourself with the literature.