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We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

arstechnica.com

61–70 of 122 posts

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#61
post #9

[flagged]

It's hard to internalize just how big space is. Low Earth Orbit has nearly twice the surface area of Earth. These LEO constellations (Kuiper and Starlink) are trying to put one object the size of a car per each area the size of Rhode Island. We're a long way away from junkyards.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cross the fingers to not witness a Kessler syndrome : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

You'll be long dead before it matters.

It's comments like these that sadden me. It's this mindset that make me pessimistic about the long-term viability of humanity as I think it is shared among many people. When we (individuals/groups/society) don't plan far ahead (even for the loosest sense/meaning of the word "plan"), that will tend to lead to short-term benefits with long-term detriments. That even applies even for things that can occur past our lifespan. In my opinion, we should strive to benefit/help our decedents. Climate change is the most obvious case of this, but it applies to other cases like solar flares on the scale of the Carrington event or greater or like Kessler syndrome here (both perhaps on the order of hundreds of years). If Kessler syndrome is a legitimate concern to be a problem in the not crazy distant future, we shouldn't dismiss it outright just because the issue is unlikely to be a problem within our lifetime.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#63
post #58
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, which makes the point of dedicated connectivity moot from a data security point of view. Metadata security and availability are different concerns.

Traffic analysis tells your adversaries who you communicate with, and what apps you're using, inferring what communication was caused by what preceding communication, etc which lets your adversary guess what the communication was about. Esp when compared against what other people is communicating about just then.

Yes, which makes it a particularly bad idea to run unencrypted metadata over satellite connections if it can be avoided – and that's the case for communication between data centers, arguably.

That might change once lasers or extremely tight radio beams can be used for ground stations, but for the latter you'd still need to make sure that nobody can get reasonably close to your ground stations, which might be possible for remote military bases, but probably not for AWS data centers.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#64
post #51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This enables secure private communication outside of the internet across data centers How so? I'd imagine the datacenter terminal side downlink to be much more easily tappable than fiberoptics. There are advantages in latency and potentially availability, but even there I would imagine fiber to win in an adversarial active jamming scenario.

> easily tappable I suppose in any realistic scenario we should assume that the enemy may be listening to all our communication at all times. This is the assumption behind such daily things as WPA3, SSH, TLS. Jamming is a much more serious concern.

Yes, so all in all for satellite vs. fiber in backbone applications, I'd say that it's a wash (or slight win for fiber) when it comes to security, and a definitive win for fiber when it comes to jamming resistance.

In the field it's a completely different story, of course – you can't always pull fiber (although it does appear in unexpected scenarios, such as fiber-operated UAVs or torpedoes).

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#65

The article doesn't even mention AWS, which I think is the obvious implication being overlooked here. AWS has Government and defense contracts, with DoD notably. This enables secure private communication outside of the internet across data centers (of which there are a lot) and of course, to any point on the Earth. The idea that this is for "underserved communities" is probably a sly nod to battlefield logistics.

They will undoubtedly sell some aspect of Kuiper through AWS. They already have IP addresses and DNS in the AWS product list, and they have all kinds of data transport services. I don’t know if the government implication is as big as you think, as the US government has been doing secure satellite communications for decades and has already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield. So undoubtedly Kuiper would love a pi…

[deleted]

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These have to de orbit at end of life. Junkyard might be the wrong analogy. More like busy workyard. Or highway.

I just cross the fingers to not witness a Kessler syndrome : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

Kessler cascades as depicted in Gravity aren’t really possible [1]. Instead, a Kessler cascade would proceed linearly, within a tight orbit, and over the course of decades if not centuries. In LEO, the timeline for a Kessler cascade is on the order of natural decay times.

[1] https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/features/understanding-the...

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be long dead before it matters.

It's comments like these that sadden me. It's this mindset that make me pessimistic about the long-term viability of humanity as I think it is shared among many people. When we (individuals/groups/society) don't plan far ahead (even for the loosest sense/meaning of the word "plan"), that will tend to lead to short-term benefits with long-term detriments. That even applies even for things that can occur past our lifes…

There's no incentive to do this, it's politically untenable to plan that far ahead. The beauty of humanity is we're always changing and evolving because we only do things within the scope of our lifetime.

The curse of humanity is having a brain that lets us think too hard about what we want to be rather than acknowledging what we are which is a bunch of mortal animals with finite time spans that like to fuck, make babies, raise families and occasionally we come together and do shit together in the form of work so we can further those three other priorities.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not big corps. Interns. Student projects. I make software typically used in the space industry and our customers are surprisingly small, just s dozen people each time. Startups, half of them funded by the EU startup funds. The kilogram in orbit is supposed to go down to $1000, and everyone’s joking that it becomes affordable to send a turd to space “for the lulz”. It’s literally the case. Ariane 5G is already do…

I see a minimum price of $325k I don't think a student is going to be able to afford that any time soon

325k$ is for 50kg. Yes it’s the minimum for this program. The students I had were programming the 10cm^3 satellites, I don’t have more details than this cursory explanation but it’s definitely possible.

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may need all the ozone possible to offset global warming.

I'm unsure what you mean by that; and ozone itself is a greenhouse gas[0,1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing#/media/File:... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#Ozone_as_a_greenhouse_ga...

Late update: if you look at the fancy full version of the IPCC graphs[0], there's a funny (ehh...) observation: the human destruction of stratospheric ozone was one of the largest climate radiative forcing factors—and it was on the "cooling" side!

[0] https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/technical-summary/figts-0...

It's the negative-side, green (O₃) bar in the third row, "halocarbons". There's multiple human contributions to ozone I don't fully understand, but, *that* one's the stratospheric ozone destruction due to CFC's. (That's not to to say CFC's were good for the climate: as that same row illustrates, CFC's themselves are also ultrapotent greenhouse gases. If you trust the fancy graph, the CFC's direct heating effect slightly outweighed their cooling effect via destroying ozone).

Re: We know a little more about Amazon's satellites

#70

The article doesn't even mention AWS, which I think is the obvious implication being overlooked here. AWS has Government and defense contracts, with DoD notably. This enables secure private communication outside of the internet across data centers (of which there are a lot) and of course, to any point on the Earth. The idea that this is for "underserved communities" is probably a sly nod to battlefield logistics.

They will undoubtedly sell some aspect of Kuiper through AWS. They already have IP addresses and DNS in the AWS product list, and they have all kinds of data transport services. I don’t know if the government implication is as big as you think, as the US government has been doing secure satellite communications for decades and has already given SpaceX the contract for Starshield. So undoubtedly Kuiper would love a pi…

I didn't know about Starshield. I thought Starlink was supposed to be neutral.
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