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Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

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Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#61
post #46

There is no regulation or legislation that is telling Amazon they can/can't or should/shouldn't post this information. Amazon appears to be responding to the wishes of the President out of fealty or fear. The threat of a negative response by the President is enough to change the behavior of the company.

> Amazon appears to be responding to the wishes of the President out of fealty or fear. Ah yes. When a company does something at the ask of a Democratic administration it’s an act of valor or bravery. When they do it at the ask of a Republican one, it’s fear or fealty. In reality it’s neither. It’s always just business.

The company said they were going to do something, they got threatened by the current administration, and then the company reversed course.

Please name a single comparable situation in the last 20 years where the Democratic president was the one threatening a company and the company reversed course.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No country has ever taxed it's citizens into greatness. Why do people repeat this? The greatest era of middle-class growth and success was when the rich paid much more in taxes. Perhaps a better phrase is "No government maintained a middle-class by letting the rich soak up all the gains".

Ok, so how about, "No country has ever taxed it's *middle class* into greatness"? Or since the middle class constitutes the majority of citizens, "No country has ever taxed *the majority* into greatness"?

Sure. Fine. It's still so reductive as to be nearly useless. Try living in low tax, libertarian havens. There isn't much social mobility. You're born into wealth or you're not. Money and power flow up the (very short) pyramid forever.

One must tax the rich heavily because otherwise their money will just snowball until there's little left for anyone else. Cute phrases too often reinforce that reality.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#63
post #46

There is no regulation or legislation that is telling Amazon they can/can't or should/shouldn't post this information. Amazon appears to be responding to the wishes of the President out of fealty or fear. The threat of a negative response by the President is enough to change the behavior of the company.

> Amazon appears to be responding to the wishes of the President out of fealty or fear. Ah yes. When a company does something at the ask of a Democratic administration it’s an act of valor or bravery. When they do it at the ask of a Republican one, it’s fear or fealty. In reality it’s neither. It’s always just business.

Before you wave this off as a “both sides are just as bad” issue, consider that the reason Amazon started down the path of displaying tariffs is likely due to a long-standing company value of putting the customer first. It makes sense that, as customers, we would want to see the impact of tariffs on our purchasing decisions. We would also want to see how much the sales tax is and how much the shipping cost is.

The problem for the Administration, however, is that they’ve been telling the American people the tariffs are not a tax on consumers, but rather a tax on foreign countries. This is a lie.

So we have a situation where the administration is intimidating Amazon into going against its own values so that it doesn’t expose the lie the Administration is still telling the American people.

I agree with you that Amazon‘s decision to bend to the administrations demand is just business. There are millions of dollars in military cloud infrastructure contracts that could be rescinded as retribution. And we see that the justice department is used by the president in ways that are far outside the norm.

But do you believe this administration is acting like any we’ve seen in living memory?

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#64
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more about forcing people to manage their cashflow and not giving them the opportunity to not pay the income tax.

Whatever you say... Some countries even hide the labour tax from the pay slips, meaning most salaried people believe they pay much less in tax than what they actually do.

Which country? This makes no sense. The UK payslip is entirely for the purpose of displaying before tax, deductions, and post-tax salary. It's a PAYE receipt, effectively.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#65
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you say... Some countries even hide the labour tax from the pay slips, meaning most salaried people believe they pay much less in tax than what they actually do.

Which country? This makes no sense. The UK payslip is entirely for the purpose of displaying before tax, deductions, and post-tax salary. It's a PAYE receipt, effectively.

Nordic countries do this. They call it an "employment fee", which is calculated on your salary and does not show up on your pay slip. It is quite sustainable as well. Of course you also have your "normal" income tax, which is withheld from you before payment and shows up on your pay slip. Also quite sustainable.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#66
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not also forget that Apple and Google are currently illegally distributing the TikTok app in their platforms. Despite a law passed by Congress and upheld by the supreme court that this shouldn’t be happening. But I guess the president, with no legal basis, gets to just order an extension and pinky promise not to enforce it. This is the new crazy dynamic between the administration and tech companies. https://www…

> currently illegally distributing the TikTok app in their platforms What's the text of the law about this? Was there a free speech lawsuit over it, or is state censorship of the app store fine now? Just asking because in another thread someone is complaining that EU doesn't have free speech compared to the US. (edit: wow, we're already flagged off the front page, huh)

The Wikipedia page has a good summary of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok_v._Garland

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#67
post #45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That conservative argument is just an excuse. The price is not shown in full, to make it harder for customer to know how much they are spending before they are at the counter. It is fully possible to show full price along with tariffs and taxes, if you want to show them. It does not necessitates misleading prices. This is just conservatives being pro-manipulation and against informed customers. When I was ordering pa…

How do you show the final price to someone when dining in and carrying out food have different tax rates? You won’t know the price until they complete the purchase. How do you put the final price on an ad that will be broadcast over a large area or distributed in a newspaper that goes to same, with different tax rates in different parts of the area? You won’t know the price until you know which location they’re shopp…

> How do you show the final price to someone when dining in and carrying out food have different tax rates?

I show two prices. Or, I show price for food and then price for packing separately. This is not a difficult problem at all.

>ow do you put the final price on an ad that will be broadcast over a large area or distributed in a newspaper that goes to same, with different tax rates in different parts of the area?

Are we now in some kind of completely different hypothetical example that is neither online shopping nor "prices in the store" we discussed before?

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#68
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon appears to be responding to the wishes of the President out of fealty or fear. Ah yes. When a company does something at the ask of a Democratic administration it’s an act of valor or bravery. When they do it at the ask of a Republican one, it’s fear or fealty. In reality it’s neither. It’s always just business.

Before you wave this off as a “both sides are just as bad” issue, consider that the reason Amazon started down the path of displaying tariffs is likely due to a long-standing company value of putting the customer first. It makes sense that, as customers, we would want to see the impact of tariffs on our purchasing decisions. We would also want to see how much the sales tax is and how much the shipping cost is. The pr…

> Before you wave this off as a “both sides are just as bad” issue, consider that the reason Amazon started down the path of displaying tariffs is likely due to a long-standing company value of putting the customer first. It makes sense that, as customers, we would want to see the impact of tariffs on our purchasing decisions. We would also want to see how much the sales tax is and how much the shipping cost is.

If they actually cared what consumers think, at some point over the past 35 years they would have added country of origin to product pages. Much simpler and higher impact. Does not require any recalculations or interpretations of local profit margin vs import value. Yet they've explicitly chosen never to add it.

Is that in the interests of the consumer?

> The problem for the Administration, however, is that they’ve been telling the American people the tariffs are not a tax on consumers, but rather a tax on foreign countries. This is a lie.

It is a tax on foreign countries. Some portion of it gets passed on to consumers who chose to purchase imported products. But it's not 100% of the tariff amount. And if there is local competition for the good, it may be 0% of the amount. Unless you're doing direct China to consumer sales (i.e. Temu style), you're not going to be able to come up with a perfect figure for these things either.

> So we have a situation where the administration is intimidating Amazon into going against its own values so that it doesn’t expose the lie the Administration is still telling the American people.

Ha! I agree that we have an administration that is leveraging the bully pulpit quite effectively. I see no change in Amazon's values here. They value money.

> I agree with you that Amazon‘s decision to bend to the administrations demand is just business. There are millions of dollars in military cloud infrastructure contracts that could be rescinded as retribution. And we see that the justice department is used by the president in ways that are far outside the norm.

> But do you believe this administration is acting like any we’ve seen in living memory?

No, I think they're effectively using the tools at their disposal to bring about the change that was promised during the years leading up to the 2024 election. None of this is a shock to anybody that was paying attention. And honestly none of this, at least so far, is particularly out of the norm for what's possible with executive authority. The speed of change is likely a bit much for the faint-hearted, but it's not unexpected either. The man ran on a platform of restructuring trade and 145% tarriffs on China is one piece of that puzzle.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#69
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another request I suddenly worry about is "what books has this person purchased or read on their kindle" - or - Who has read books critical of the Trump Regime in the past x months?

Ironically there are protections for this, and much of what we call "Hacker Culture" is built around the ideas; but they only apply to librarians and libraries in the US; https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/librarybill

Many of those protections are meaningless if you ignore the law, as this administration is quite willing to do.

Re: Amazon Rules Out Displaying Tariff Impact After White House Attack

#70
post #67
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you show the final price to someone when dining in and carrying out food have different tax rates? You won’t know the price until they complete the purchase. How do you put the final price on an ad that will be broadcast over a large area or distributed in a newspaper that goes to same, with different tax rates in different parts of the area? You won’t know the price until you know which location they’re shopp…

> How do you show the final price to someone when dining in and carrying out food have different tax rates? I show two prices. Or, I show price for food and then price for packing separately. This is not a difficult problem at all. >ow do you put the final price on an ad that will be broadcast over a large area or distributed in a newspaper that goes to same, with different tax rates in different parts of the area? A…

What they’re getting at is not applying tax to the price is the standard consistent way to show price in the US. If you have a national ad campaign you wouldn’t be able to show the price with tax because every state and city has their own tax rate. So then, as a consumer, you’d have to guess if you’re looking at a national ad or regional that has tax applied. This also applies to products that have their price printed on the packaging for national distribution. Sure the price could have fine print that says if tax is included or not, but now there’s more than one way to display price — even in a store. See: https://xkcd.com/927
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