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The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

theguardian.com

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Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#61

Post by lotsofpulp »

TylerE wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now people are talking about how full of suffering life is when one doesn’t have whatever minimum of health they deem required to live, but are kept alive anyways This is more a social anxiety than reflection of reality. To the extent we’re prolonging suffering, it’s on the order of weeks, maybe months. Not years. Most people fear death. That’s natural. Some of us, due to being stupid, depressed or possibly enlight…

Quality of life is often gone long before there is any imminant chance of death. Chronic pain, loss of mobility, memory, visikn, and hearing deteriorating. Drugs and all their side effects.

There is a very large gradient. Even all of those symptoms, while lower quality of life than when they were in their prime, are a far cry from being in a hospital/nursing home, with random people poking needles into you all the time, and that is a best case scenario.

I know from seeing my grandparents, who lived into upper 90s. At home, they were still happy. Being poked and prodded in a hospital is a material step down in quality of life. On top of that, imagine having a breathing tube/catheter/etc.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#62

Post by xen2xen1 »

cancerhacker wrote: post #44

(Edited to add: Sorry, too long of a post here. I didn’t bother to renew my domain this year) A timely piece I can relate to. currently starting my second week in a (US) hospital oncology ward after my 11th cycle of chemo. I was first diagnosed with stage iv colon cancer and after chemo, surgery, resections and stubbornness was NED from 2018 to 2025. The return is inoperable and I was given “six months to a year”. I…

My dad chose hospice over dialysis and constant potassium problems. I feel you there.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#63

Post by xen2xen1 »

xvector wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death We’re on a path to curing aging. We have no clue how to cure death .

If you can cure aging, death itself becomes an engineering problem. Curing aging gives you the time you need to figure out gradual replacement, uploading (transfers, not copies), distributing consciousness across multiple fault-tolerant nodes in orbit or beyond, etc. Then you have cured death for all practical purposes. You will still be vulnerable to certain cosmic catastrophes (which you can plan around) and the he…

The Ship of Theseus has questions.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#64

Post by JoshTriplett »

netsharc wrote: post #59
JoshTriplett wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One easy way to tell the difference: if you do the full upload non-destructively, such that there's a full uploaded copy that thinks it's you, and your full original biological self, would the latter then happily get disintegrated? (There are people who say yes to that question, which genuinely baffles me.) The thing I'm talking about, of attempting to build a "move" operation that isn't "copy then delete", is exactl…

Both the copy and the original wouldn't like to be destroyed, would they, it's like volunteering to end one's consciousness. What if there's hardware to wirelessly combine the minds, and you can experience what your clone^W other-self experiences. A bit like having someone be in e.g. Iceland and facetime you a low quality sight and sounds experience of Iceland... would you then say "Ok, I don't mind having one of my…

"Combine" is a tall order. But "transfer in a continuous fashion, with continuity of consciousness throughout the process" is somewhat less so.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#65

Post by Loughla »

cancerhacker wrote: post #44

(Edited to add: Sorry, too long of a post here. I didn’t bother to renew my domain this year) A timely piece I can relate to. currently starting my second week in a (US) hospital oncology ward after my 11th cycle of chemo. I was first diagnosed with stage iv colon cancer and after chemo, surgery, resections and stubbornness was NED from 2018 to 2025. The return is inoperable and I was given “six months to a year”. I…

The quote that really has stuck with me was also from Pratchett:

"What can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the reaper man?"

This caught me in two ways:

1. Death is the release. Whatever suffering you're undergoing, it won't follow you into whatever comes next, even if that is absolute oblivion. The relief would be welcome, I assume. So that's at least one positive way to look at it.

But moreso:

2. Everyone's death is individual and special. The process of getting to it is different for everyone, and the journey is just as much a part of the process as the destination. It isn't something to fear, because you cannot stop it, but it is something to consider as you move through your life.

Cancer is the fucking devil. I, myself, have been lucky enough to avoid it for now, but we spent the last year with my father and lymphoma. It's a fucking nightmare of cancer treatment and chasing side effects from the cancer treatments until the end. He chose to die with hospice on the family farm; it wasn't the most dignified death due to the symptoms of his cancer, but it was peaceful and with family/friends. So that's something.

His treatment didn't really bother me, and his process didn't really depress me; it was the people like the older lady in your write-up that really stuck with me. In his first month on the cancer floor, his across the hall neighbor was just like that. Her only lucid moments were either screaming in pain, or nonsense phrases on repeat from what I assume was her childhood.

Terrifying.

I hope that your life goes well all the way to the end. I genuinely do not know what to say other than that.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#66

Post by ddq »

xvector wrote: post #20
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never going to happen. We don't have the technology, we're not going to get the technology, and nobody benefits by having wealthy people around forever. Your body parts will eventually wear out regardless of what you try to do to mitigate the situation, and everybody will get terminal cancer sooner or later regardless of anything else. And even if THAT doesn't get you, an accident eventually will. Doesn't matter if i…

The big assumption in this counterargument is that we stay biological forever. I see biological "immortality" (anti-aging) as a temporary stopgap while we develop gradual replacement and migrate to a synthetic/digital consciousness, hosted on nodes distributed throughout Earth orbit or beyond for fault tolerance and availability. I'd be shocked if this didn't happen in the next thousand years. Needing air/water every…

You won't "migrate", it will just be a copy of you. Your conscious perspective will not transfer to the copy of you. You will still be bound to the original, even if a simulacrum of your mind is created.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#68

Post by computerthings »

xvector wrote: post #10

I genuinely think death will be conquered, for all practical purposes, within this century. In our vast 300 thousand year history, we are likely in the last century of mortal humans, and in the last millennium of biological ones. Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death, and wonder why we didn't try harder, earlier. Why isn't the longevity problem our #1…

[dead]

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#69

Post by Jensson »

xvector wrote: post #52
e40 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With our current lifespan I already see lots of people intentionally killing themselves with alcohol or drugs or food. I cannot imagine most people would be happy with eternity.

I know most people aren't happy with how long they live now. The idea is that you'd get to choose how long you want to live instead of having it forced on you.

Yeah, ideally suicide would be 100% of deaths.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#70

Post by kiba »

fsckboy wrote: post #41
kiba wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are different. For example, my fear of death is in the from existential dread. It's an occasional thing. We should probably try harder to make people healthier in general. Much of the frailty of the elderly can be avoided with rigorous exercise. Maybe heart disease and dementia doesn't have to be your fate. I don't know how much longer people will be able to live if they optimize the hell out of their biomarke…

without disputing that there exists an optimal diet/exercise regiment for longevity and health, i very much doubt that we at present have a clue what it is. every day new science and medical evidence overturns old, and reproducibility fails. optimizing diet and rigorous exercise comes at some cost in the form of time spent in your precious youth. so you sacrifice youthtime for a chance at a longer better old age. eac…

Exercise done today improve health and well being. I would not consider that a waste.
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