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Still standing

blog.4chan.org

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: Still standing

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not the core mainframes… the only parts that actually get what might be called lavish spending on security. Everything else outside of that… banks obviously have incentives to cut security spending to as low as possible.

Nobody is comparing 4chan to bank mainframes except you. I can’t give a source for something I didn’t claim in the first place.

Are you confused?

The claim was “ Get real. Companies with infinitely more money, staff, and robust security practices are hacked every day. ”

Banking core mainframes are the only thing I know of that gets anwhere near that kind of claim in terms of money, staff, and “robust security practices” 24/7/365.

And even then it’s far from infinite.

Re: Still standing

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is comparing 4chan to bank mainframes except you. I can’t give a source for something I didn’t claim in the first place.

Are you confused? The claim was “ Get real. Companies with infinitely more money, staff, and robust security practices are hacked every day. ” Banking core mainframes are the only thing I know of that gets anwhere near that kind of claim in terms of money, staff, and “robust security practices” 24/7/365. And even then it’s far from infinite.

“Infinitely more” compared to a shoestring budget does not mean infinite unless you want to be annoyingly pedantic.

The fact is I provided a fairly comprehensive list of hacks and breaches, many coming from large public companies that spend more in a year on security than 4chan brings in for ad revenue in a decade.

Re: Still standing

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archive.is/iZC4v Hopefully, that works. It's the first time I've done an archive like that. It works for me, but it always did because I'm using the Bypass Paywalls Clean add-on in Firefox https://gitflic.ru/project/magnolia1234/bpc_uploads

So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? Alex Jones would like a word with you.

> So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede?

As the article I linked points out, that trope was (and still is) a hypothetical that tells us nothing useful about first amendment speech rights. The reason the article is so valuable and often cited is when one of those first amendment tropes is tossed into a discussion, it's usually to imply some specific speech which is protected - is not protected. They are often deployed either in error by those who don't understand how very narrow and incredibly rare first amendment exceptions actually are, or as a bad faith rhetorical device by those who already know the first amendment protects speech they wish it didn't.

As a student and fan of first amendment jurisprudence, the fascinating thing about the tropes is that most of them come from old, exceptional cases where the court got it wrong. Cases which were either reversed by later courts or so thoroughly disavowed they've never come back before the court. A long time ago, various eras of SCOTUS courts wobbled around in the long process of figuring out first amendment exceptions and some bad decisions were made - then later corrected. After decades of trying (and failing) to work out a set of rules permitting "good speech" while stopping "bad speech", it became obvious it was impossible.

Over the past 50 years or so, SCOTUS narrowed in on a detailed set of precedents which are as consistent and crystal clear as they are radically extreme - always protecting almost ALL speech - including the worst, most vile, offensive and hateful speech that has no redeeming value whatsoever. Speech I personally despise and wish no one ever said. While I hate the speech (and, often, the speaker), I fiercely defend the first amendment which protects it. Tolerating the awful things people I dislike do with their rights is the price of still having those rights when we need them most. After all those decades of trial and error, in the end, I think SCOTUS finally got it just about perfect.

So the next time you feel like hauling out the "fire... crowded theater" thing, consider instead just saying "The goddamn first amendment fully and absolutely protects this offensive, vile, bullshit speech - and I hate that these assholes said this shit because it's wrong - and here's why..." This would have the benefit of very likely being correct regarding the first amendment and I'd totally respect your feelings and even probably agree with you.

Re: Still standing

#64
post #4

4chan is controversial and often very ugly, but it is one of the few old school message boards that allows free speech left. Like the ACLU used to do, we should help them stay online and exercising their free speech, even if it is annoying and gross.

What are you planning to do to help them stay online?

Re: Still standing

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archive.is/iZC4v Hopefully, that works. It's the first time I've done an archive like that. It works for me, but it always did because I'm using the Bypass Paywalls Clean add-on in Firefox https://gitflic.ru/project/magnolia1234/bpc_uploads

So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? Alex Jones would like a word with you.

Alex Jones would like a word with you.

As TFA helpfully points out, defamation is outside First Amendment protection.

Re: Still standing

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you confused? The claim was “ Get real. Companies with infinitely more money, staff, and robust security practices are hacked every day. ” Banking core mainframes are the only thing I know of that gets anwhere near that kind of claim in terms of money, staff, and “robust security practices” 24/7/365. And even then it’s far from infinite.

“Infinitely more” compared to a shoestring budget does not mean infinite unless you want to be annoyingly pedantic. The fact is I provided a fairly comprehensive list of hacks and breaches, many coming from large public companies that spend more in a year on security than 4chan brings in for ad revenue in a decade.

It’s not even a million times more for a typical mid size bank… probably not even 100,000x… and as far as I know their core mainframes have been 100% secure over the past decade.

Hence my point.

Are you even fully reading my comments?

If you only meant that your claim applies only within an upper limit of say 1000x… saying “infinitely more” is obviously going to mislead some fraction of the readerbase.

Re: Still standing

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archive.is/iZC4v Hopefully, that works. It's the first time I've done an archive like that. It works for me, but it always did because I'm using the Bypass Paywalls Clean add-on in Firefox https://gitflic.ru/project/magnolia1234/bpc_uploads

So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? Alex Jones would like a word with you.

Alex Jones lost a civil case to the families of the victims. There was no first amendment issue because the first amendment specifies what the government can and cannot limit w.r.t. speech.

Re: Still standing

#68
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? Alex Jones would like a word with you.

Alex Jones defamed families by lying about the details of their children's deaths on his internet show. Courts have decided that his actions count as defamation. Why did you bring him up here? Do you think his being punished for profiting off of the defamation of school children is a violation of his first amendment rights?

No, just the opposite. It wasn't a violation of his first amendment rights. You can't target the families of shooting victims like he did and claim that it was "free speech".

Re: Still standing

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? Alex Jones would like a word with you.

> So, you can yell "fire" falsely and cause a stampede? As the article I linked points out, that trope was (and still is) a hypothetical that tells us nothing useful about first amendment speech rights. The reason the article is so valuable and often cited is when one of those first amendment tropes is tossed into a discussion, it's usually to imply some specific speech which is protected - is not protected. They are…

You could more easily have quoted ''Brandenburg v. Ohio'', 395 U.S. 444 (1969) [42]-[44]:

The line between what is permissible and not subject to control and what may be made impermissible and subject to regulation is the line between ideas and overt acts.

The example usually given by those who would punish speech is the case of one who falsely shouts fire in a crowded theatre.

This is, however, a classic case where speech is brigaded with action. See Speiser v. Randall, 357 U.S. 513, 536—537, 78 S.Ct. 1332, 1346, 2 L.Ed.2d 1460 (Douglas, J., concurring.) They are indeed inseparable and a prosecution can be launched for the overt acts actually caused. Apart from rare instances of that kind, speech is, I think, immune from prosecution.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/395/444

Re: Still standing

#70
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? There are massive breaches of huge companies who should be doing better all the time. In 2017: > More than 40% of the population of America was potentially impacted by the Equifax data breach. In 2022: > In September 2022, Optus experienced a major data breach that exposed the personal information of millions of customers That's just 2 off the top of my head.

Did you miss the words “bank” and “core mainframes”? i.e. what they actually might spend millions of dollars per week on securing.

Because only a hacked "core mainframe" (definition please) of a bank can excuse the lack of resources at 4chan? Only accepting overly specific evidence is a neat trick to never lose an argument.
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