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Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

guardian.co.uk

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Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#61

Post by ComputerGuru »

Dilpil wrote: post #57
ComputerGuru wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget civilian women. Doctors from the Red Cross, the Doctors without Borders association, the UN, and others in Gaza providing aid have described the burns on the affected victims, many of which arrive at the conclusion that these burns can only be had as a result of white phosphorus. Take a look at this Creative Commons documentary by AlJazeera (forget their bias, just look at the facts presented by authorities in…

A small nitpick: Al Jazeera isn't biased any more than mainstream American networks are biased. In fact, many right wingers in the Arab world call it a mouthpiece for the west.

Actually I personally agree with you. But my aim was to get the point across, so I was covering all the bases :)

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#62

Post by homme »

pg wrote: post #59
davidw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you didn't say "be an optimist" - you argued that I don't care, because I don't want to discuss it on this site, which is a bad argument. There are plenty of issues that I care deeply about for which this site is not an appropriate forum. > 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing' - Edmund Burke Discussing the issue on internet forums is so close to "doing nothing" as to be…

Discussing the issue on internet forums is so close to "doing nothing" as to be virtually indistinguishable. I don't think that's true. People are very much influenced by things other people say, and there is nothing magic about the web that makes this stop working online. I've often been influenced by things I read in forums. And in this specific case, you're particularly mistaken, because the situation is so much i…

At the very least, rational U.S. taxpayers may start looking askance at why their money is being conscripted to support this slaughter.

I know some here may take exception to my description of what going on here as slaughter, but all I see is the abridgment of human rights and respect of life on the basis of tribalism,mythology, and a past criminal genocide that the victims being attacked here played no part in. This should not be interpreted as hate or anti-semitism, as it is grounded in the basic respect for all human life. I don't wish to start a flame war here, but feel free to post responses.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#63

Post by pg »

palish wrote: post #42
pg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dantheman's account wasn't disabled for submitting that comment, but for reinserting editorial remarks in a submission title after I'd reverted it to the original. There's currently no way to lock story titles, so the only way to avoid an endless cycle of reverts was to disable his account for a few hours. I only replied to that comment because there was no other way of contacting him; he had no email addr in his pro…

Thank you for clarifying. I wonder if that's a symptom that a private messaging system would be useful for HN? But I'm really glad that dantheman learned from the experience instead of just leaving the site entirely, and I wonder if there's a way of making it obvious what happened so that other users could also be taught to avoid bad behavior. But it probably doesn't matter much. Sorry for my possibly-inflammatory po…

There already is private messaging within HN. We use it to communicate with founders and applicants. The main reason it's not turned on for everyone is that I worry about the attendant bureaucratic hassles. There are probably all kinds of laws either guarding people's privacy or insuring they have none from governments, and I don't even know what they are.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#64

Post by davidw »

pg wrote: post #59
davidw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you didn't say "be an optimist" - you argued that I don't care, because I don't want to discuss it on this site, which is a bad argument. There are plenty of issues that I care deeply about for which this site is not an appropriate forum. > 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing' - Edmund Burke Discussing the issue on internet forums is so close to "doing nothing" as to be…

Discussing the issue on internet forums is so close to "doing nothing" as to be virtually indistinguishable. I don't think that's true. People are very much influenced by things other people say, and there is nothing magic about the web that makes this stop working online. I've often been influenced by things I read in forums. And in this specific case, you're particularly mistaken, because the situation is so much i…

> And in this specific case, you're particularly mistaken, because the situation is so much influenced by public opinion. If everyone in the world was talking now about what's happening in Gaza, the Israelis would have to stop.

For values of "world" that equal "United States". It's quite a hot topic over here in Europe, and public opinion is certainly not in favor of Israel. But that's par for the course, and it's the US that doles out the cash, as 'homme' points out.

Also, in terms of postings really influencing things... well, yes, ideas are ideas and can have influence, but on the other hand, some ideas are discussed endlessly without anyone changing their positions much, which would point to the futility of the discussions.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#65

Post by olefoo »

pg wrote: post #63
palish wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for clarifying. I wonder if that's a symptom that a private messaging system would be useful for HN? But I'm really glad that dantheman learned from the experience instead of just leaving the site entirely, and I wonder if there's a way of making it obvious what happened so that other users could also be taught to avoid bad behavior. But it probably doesn't matter much. Sorry for my possibly-inflammatory po…

There already is private messaging within HN. We use it to communicate with founders and applicants. The main reason it's not turned on for everyone is that I worry about the attendant bureaucratic hassles. There are probably all kinds of laws either guarding people's privacy or insuring they have none from governments, and I don't even know what they are.

If you're providing a messaging system analogous to email you should be covered by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communicatio...

However, given the nature of the site membership, and the potential for a deal gone bad to result in the subpoena of any private communications a given user might have had, it's easy to see why you have not enabled this feature.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#66

Post by tlrobinson »

pg wrote: post #36
tlrobinson wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly OT, but I'm curious about the criteria for making submissions "dead". This one was briefly dead, but reappeared after a few minutes. Can posts be made "undead" by additional up votes, or was it explicitly brought back by a moderator?

Are you sure it was dead? I just looked in the kill log, and there is no record of an editor killing it. The kill log is only kept per server invocation, but the server process has been running since yesterday evening, PST.

I was pretty sure it was, but I could have been mistaken. Is there a difference between "dead" and whatever happens when enough users flag a submission? If so, it could have been the latter.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#67

Post by malkia »

brl wrote: post #55
Maktab wrote: post #17

White Phosphorus is not a banned substance, nor is there anything obviously illegal about Israel's use of it in this conflict. It's certainly not a chemical weapon or any other sort of WMD, despite what some of the more breathless reporting would imply. The only international convention which may regulate the use of White Phosphorus is Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, however as WP is d…

Does this look obviously illegal to you? It does to me. http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/fosforgroot.jpg I think this is a world record for number of different war crimes captured in a single photograph.

Now that's photoshopped!.... Just kiddin' off course - that's a real TERROR right there!

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#69

Post by ksvs »

axiom wrote: post #56

Fantastic. I'll start posting stories about Hamas storing weapons in mosques, schools and hospitals. And firing rockets at civilian centres in Israel. Then we'll have ourselves an old fashioned reddit party! first one to invoke godwin's law wins!!

When Hamas kills 1100 people you can.

Re: Evidence emerges of Israeli use of phosphorus weapons in Gaza

#70

Post by anamax »

knieveltech wrote: post #33
Maktab wrote: post #17

White Phosphorus is not a banned substance, nor is there anything obviously illegal about Israel's use of it in this conflict. It's certainly not a chemical weapon or any other sort of WMD, despite what some of the more breathless reporting would imply. The only international convention which may regulate the use of White Phosphorus is Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, however as WP is d…

You would have an excellent point if the practice of using phosphorus flares was what was being reported. Unfortunately, the issue that's most heavily reported on is use of phosphorus-based artillery. I invite you to explain to me how reports from UN staff that WP-based artillery shells where used on several warehouses of aid supplies in the midst of a UN compound doesn't constitute use of WP as an incendiary against…

> WP as an incendiary against heavy concentrations of civilians. While you're at it feel free to discuss how WP artillery shells can be deployed in an urban environment without affecting "heavy concentrations of civilians".

The rule isn't against the use of WP where there are heavy concentrations of civilians, it's against using WP as an incendiary where there are heavy concentrations of civilians. Using it as a smoke-generating agent where there are heavy concentrations of civilians is perfectly okay.

FWIW, the "laws of war" (and this isn't one as far as Israel is concerned) are a tit-for-tat thing. Unless Hamas has agreed to them as well, they're not relevant.

And, it's kind of hard to argue that the concern is about "bad acts" when comparable acts by Hamas don't rate a mention.

And yes, I'm looking forward to the discussion of proportionality.

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