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I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

varunraghu.com

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Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#61

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

pliuchkin wrote: post #40
esalman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is coding without critical thinking? I never vibe coded, and I don't understand this trend AT ALL. I read how copilot and such are detrimental to critical thinking, and I am even consciously scaling back on copilot use now whenever possible, and prioritizing Google search, reading documentation, blog posts and stackoverflow now.

"I am even consciously scaling back on copilot use now whenever possible, and prioritizing Google search, reading documentation, blog posts and stackoverflow now." Very soon we will run out of human written articles.

This implies that humans will stop writing such articles, which won't happen. It may be more difficult to find them but some sites will likely cater specifically to this so you know you can just search for that site.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#62

Post by sam-cop-vimes »

If one compares software produced by AI with software developed by a "remote team", from the rest of the org's point of view it is the same. It has to go through a QA process and then made available in prod. The real issues start when obscure errors start to happen or there is an outage and suddenly no one knows how to fix it.

For this reason, for a long time to come, AI tools will be an assistant to dev teams who will still have responsibility for fixing issues when the brown stuff hits the fan. To shoulder that responsibility effectively, they will need to have a good understanding of the produced code.

So yes, vibe coding is here to stay but it will not replace software dev teams anytime soon. Dev teams might shrink initially because orgs will think they can save money. The trend will reverse quickly after a few major outages.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#63

Post by kmac_ »

captainkrtek wrote: post #28

Using AI to assist in locating the right library function or similar to documentation has been effective to speed up my development, but I really dislike using it to autocomplete whole functions or large swathes of code, because then I have to spend time reading and understanding code I didn't write. This doesn't ultimately feel "faster" when I own what I write.

I'm using AI for grepping, analyzing flow, finding cross-project dependencies, etc. It provides a significant speedup. But the generated code is mediocre at best. Changes look like patches on fabric, not woven threads. AI generates too much redundant code.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#64

Post by tboyd47 »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #18

Yeah, this makes me feel so sad because as somebody who's been a programmer for about 15 years now, there is definitely an advantage that we have because we actually know how to code. I feel really sad for those who are starting out today. In many cases, especially for frontend programming, vibe coding correctly has a lot of value but it does makes you not learn anything. Which means you remain at what I call the "vi…

My understanding is that typed languages like Haskell and Rust are even easier with vibe coding than untyped.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#65

Post by coffeefirst »

billy99k wrote: post #5

"that’s when it struck me. coding isn’t about the finished product. its a lot like writing. its about the process. its about how you approach a problem. its critical thinking." From a business perspective, they don't care about this. They just want it built as inexpensively as possible in a reasonable time frame. Vibe coding is here to stay.

The first significant business to face serious legal, regulatory, and reputational consequences for vibe slop will put a pretty quick end to that...

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#66

Post by azthecx »

CharlesW wrote: post #36
magicink81 wrote: post #7

One problem I have is that AI is writing code I don't understand completely, yet I'm still responsible for it. Vibe coding seems like an echo from the future.

> One problem I have is that AI is writing code I don't understand completely, yet I'm still responsible for it. With vibe coding, you are as much a reviewer/editor as an author, and as an editor should never accept generated code that you don't understand. Happily, the same technology that generated the code can explain the code.

No, with vibe coding you are not a reviewer an editor or an author, quoting from the source:

    There's a new kind of coding I call "vibe coding", where you fully give in to the vibes, embrace exponentials, and forget that the code even exists.
    ...
    I "Accept All" always, I don't read the diffs anymore. When I get error messages I just copy paste them in with no comment, usually that fixes it.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#67

Post by josh2600 »

Hand coded will always win for bespoke projects (and any hard tech startup is a bespoke project).

The reality is that many startups are not tech hard. AI can help alleviate the pain of engineering a v0 to see if you have product market fit much faster. It’s great for prototypes.

I wouldn’t trust AI for production code without also having a strong AI counterpoint testing system.

That is to say, producing code is an annealing process. There is a refinement that comes from striking the hot iron and quenching the blade in water.

With code, spaghetti code will get you out the door, but it will never get you to scale. Scale requires precision, meditation on Kolmogorov complexity, and a clear understanding of the tradeoffs in distributed systems.

AI can help right now, but it is not a panacea, at least in the present moment.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#68

Post by prophesi »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #27
prophesi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what was the point of it all if i didn’t learn a thing? As a senior software engineer, AI still surprises me with concepts I didn't know about from time to time. I think spending the time to grok the code it generates is about as invaluable as the code's functionality. As in the past, however, nothing's stopping people from copy-pasting code found online and never improving their internal toolkit. AI will not only…

> As a senior software engineer, AI still surprises me with concepts I didn't know about from time to time. Example?

There are ample opportunities to learn more about software development regardless of experience. It's a bit of an n+1 problem. If you're just building CRUD apps, I can understand how one might plateau in their knowledge, but even that can have a broad scope.

But for a recent example, I learned to stop worrying and love macros in Elixir. Even `defmodule` and `def/defp` are themselves macros.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#69

Post by concordDance »

pests wrote: post #46
BayArea925 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding will not be done by juniors anymore. We are quickly progressing to humans no longer needing to learn machine langauage (syntax) and computers better developing code by interpreting human languages (english). Teams will be led by one subject matter expert, and fulfilled by thousands of agents. I would not be advising anyone under 21 to become a "coder". Studying computer sceince still has value, but coding was…

Same promise all the no-code or low-code app builders claim. Anyone who has done a serious project with LLM help knows it is no where near able to do half the things needed to run a project.

Right now, sure. But when a 21 year old is picking a field they need to think 10 years from now.

Re: I won't be vibe coding anymore: a noob's perspective

#70

Post by normie3000 »

kmac_ wrote: post #63
captainkrtek wrote: post #28

Using AI to assist in locating the right library function or similar to documentation has been effective to speed up my development, but I really dislike using it to autocomplete whole functions or large swathes of code, because then I have to spend time reading and understanding code I didn't write. This doesn't ultimately feel "faster" when I own what I write.

I'm using AI for grepping, analyzing flow, finding cross-project dependencies, etc. It provides a significant speedup. But the generated code is mediocre at best. Changes look like patches on fabric, not woven threads. AI generates too much redundant code.

How do you use AI to grep?
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