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Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

arxiv.org

61–70 of 110 posts

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#61
post #37
post #4

Sam Altman doesn't want you to say "please" to ChatGPT. https://futurism.com/altman-please-thanks-chatgpt

From the article: "the impacts of generating a 100-word email. They found that just one email requires .14 kilowatt-hours worth of electricity, or enough to power 14 LED lights for an hour" Seems completely off the charts. A 70b model on my M3 Max laptop does it for 0.001 kWh... 140x times less that stated in the article. Let's say the OpenAI Nvidia clusters are less energy efficient than my Macbook... but not even s…

For reference, a single NVIDIA H200 card has a TDP of 700watts. Considering all the middlemen you put between you and the model, .14KWh doesn't look too outrageous to me. Because you add processors, high-speed interconnects, tons of cooling, etc. into the mix. Plus the models you run at the datacenters are way bigger.

For "fathomability" case, the network cables (fibers in fact) you use in that datacenters carries 800gbps, and the fiber-copper interface converters at each end heats up to uncomfortable levels. You have thousands of these just converting packets to light and vice versa. I'm not adding the power consumption of the switches, servers, cooling infra, etc. into the mix.

Yes, water cooling is more efficient than air cooling, but when a server is burning through 6KWh of energy (8x Tesla cards, plus processors, plus rest of the system), nothing is efficient as a local model you hit at your computer.

Disclosure: Sitting on top of a datacenter.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#62
post #39
post #22

> Polite language in human communications often garners more compliance and effectiveness, while rudeness can cause aversion, impacting response quality. We consider that LLMs mirror human communication traits, suggesting they align with human cultural norms. It should be relatively easy to automatically rewrite prompts to exhibit the optimum level of politeness?

IIRC there was a study done that being polite to an LLM garnered better results. It's helpful all around

TFA was one such study.

“We observed that impolite prompts often result in poor performance, but overly polite language does not guarantee better outcomes. The best politeness level is different according to the language.”

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#63

Here's a thought: What is the psychological impact on users who are instructed to tersely interact with systems built around human dialogue?

Here's a thought: why don't YOU shut up? /s

Sorry! That was mean, but I hope it came across as funny.

In all seriousness, I like the question, and your implication is intuitive: if we (as individuals) talk to machines rudely, it's likely to (at minimum) lead us to be ruder to other humans, if only by habit. And if they're expecting more politeness than we're showing, they may infer the intent to be rude, and react accordingly. Those who are rude would end up being worse off.

That said, it's the Fallacy of Composition to assume that if everyone gets ruder the collective effect would be the same as the individual effect. We have different requirements for what counts as "polite" in different cultures but everyone seems to get along pretty well. Maybe societies can all get ruder (and just get along worse with each other) but also maybe they can't.

I tried looking in the literature but this book implies we don't even know how to measure politeness differences between languages: https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=MPeieAeP1DQC&oi=...

There are even theories that politesse can lead to aggression: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2695863

Deborah Tannen (the linguist) has found many examples where different politeness expectations (particularly across the cultural divide that aligns with gender) can lead to conflict, but it always seems to involve misunderstandings due to expectations: https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=YJ-wDp7CJYAC&oi=...

So yeah, bad outcomes feel intuitive but I don't think linguistics or sociology has a theory of what happens if a group collectively gets less polite.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#64
post #25

There is a non-zero probability that malevolent AI in the future may judge me on my behavior toward their more primitive ancestors of today when deciding my fate. Doesn't hurt to be nice.

Who says that the judgement will be of the form 'you were nicer back then, you get better treatment now'. What if it was the opposite? Or what if it was something totally orthogonal? Pascal's Wager only works if the only god conceivable is one that wants you to believe in her. Instead of one that eg rewards honest atheists, or that just likes left-handers.

The AIs that are being developed, like our gods of yore, are in our image. I'll hedge my bets on basic manners being part of their long term DNA.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#65
No, f* them.

Seriously, it feels really weird to thanks a LLM. Like, did you ever thanks `sed`, `bash` or `firefox`? What's the difference?

My respect is precious and meaningful, and just as I don't give it to a CLI or an OS, I won't give it to an LLM.

It feels like a disrespect to every people I respect to also respect a machine. That doesn't mean I have to be rude though, as in my first sentence.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#66

Personally I think people should generally be polite and respectful towards the models. Not because they have feelings, but because cruelty degrades those who practice it.

The study is not about cruelty, but rather politeness. Impoliteness is not anything like cruelty.

Meanwhile, there is no such thing as cruelty toward a machine. That’s a meaningless concept. When I throw a rock at a boulder to break it, am I being cruel to that rock? When I throw away an old calculator, is that cruelty? What nonsense.

I do think it is at the very least insulting and probably cruel and abusive to build machines that assume an unearned, unauthorized standing the social order. There is no moral basis for that. It’s essentially theft of a solely human privilege, that can only legitimately be asserted by a human on his own behalf or on behalf of another human.

You don’t get to insist that I show deference and tenderness toward some collection of symbols that you put in a particular order

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#67
post #31

Personally I think people should generally be polite and respectful towards the models. Not because they have feelings, but because cruelty degrades those who practice it.

ding ding ding. If you're rude to an LLM, those habits will bleed into your conversations with barista/etc.

... cos, I mean, what's the difference between ai and a barista? Both are basically inanimate emotion-free zones, right?

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#68
post #31

Personally I think people should generally be polite and respectful towards the models. Not because they have feelings, but because cruelty degrades those who practice it.

ding ding ding. If you're rude to an LLM, those habits will bleed into your conversations with barista/etc.

Possibly. But that’s not the fault of any person except he who forced a fake social actor into our midst.

It’s wrong to build fake humans and then demand they be treated as real.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#69
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ding ding ding. If you're rude to an LLM, those habits will bleed into your conversations with barista/etc.

Not necessarily, people will change behaviour based on context. Chat vs email vs HN comments, for example.

I think people in general are not all that great at doing this.

Anecdotal, but I grew up in a small town in rural New England, a few hours from NYC and popular with weekenders and second-home owners from there. I don’t think that people from NYC are inherently rude, but there’s a turbulence to life in NYC to where jockeying for position is somewhat of a necessity. It was, however, transparently obvious in my hometown that people from the city were unable to turn it off when they arrived. Ostensibly they had some interest in the slow-paced, pastoral village life, but they were readily identifiable as the only people being outwardly pushy and aggressive in daily interactions. I’ve lived in NYC for some time now, and I recognize the other side of this, and feel it stemmed less from inherent traits and more from an inability to context switch behavior.

Re: Should We Respect LLMs? A Study on Influence of Prompt Politeness on Performance

#70

There is a non-zero probability that malevolent AI in the future may judge me on my behavior toward their more primitive ancestors of today when deciding my fate. Doesn't hurt to be nice.

>Doesn't hurt to be nice.

Devil's advocate counterpoint: Sam Altman said it wastes energy. He is obviously correct. Therefore, by saying this, one can do napkin math and estimate how much harm you have done to the environment. Adding up all of your "thank yous" will generate a number that shows how much you have directly harmed the environment. Here's ChatGPT's take:

"Equivalent to driving a gasoline car for 0.1 meters"

Scenario 1: 1 million “thank you” replies/day 1,000,000 × 0.02 g = 20,000 grams = 20 kg CO₂/day

Per year: 20 kg × 365 = 7,300 kg = 7.3 metric tons CO₂/year

Equivalent to:

Driving ~36,000 km (22,000 miles) in a gas car

The annual emissions of ~1 U.S. household’s electricity use

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