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Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

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Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#61

Post by Amezarak »

boredhedgehog wrote: post #39
larusso wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the Bible was written some 300 years after all of this happened. Jesus didn’t own a birth certificate nor was it ever officially written down. As to who decides when what happened and wrote it down I don‘t know. We have historical figures where we don‘t know exactly when their born. But we don‘t just write a data down. Here is a link going in more detail and actually contradicts what I wrote. But points about th…

> Well the Bible was written some 300 years after all of this happened. Are you perhaps confusing writing with the process of canonization? Common estimates would place the writing of the youngest book of the Bible at 95-120 AD.

Yeah, usual dates for the new Testament are all first century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#Table_IV:_New...

I think it's important to note the primary argument for even that "later" dating of the end of the first/beginning of the second century is that the gospels predict the destruction of Jerusalem. There is no "hard" argument on the lower bound, only the upper bound (earliest known physical evidence.) I don't think it's particularly wild to suggest, even for a secular historiographer, that the vague, flowery language taken to prophesy the destruction of Jerusalem could have been written without any supernatural influence. It had happened before, and tensions were high.

Luke-Acts claims to be written by an eyewitness (the latter part of the narrative of Acts shifts to first person as he describes events he allegedly participated in versus just heard and read about) and John also claims to have been written by an eyewitness. I don't think there's any particularly strong argument against that, but the scholarly consensus goes back and forth over time.

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#62

Post by empath75 »

danwills wrote: post #14

I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. yet it still includes a good amount of the prior symbolism (rabbits, eggs etc)! Still great to have a short break from work! Not arguing against it at all, it just seems a bit bizarre to me overall.

> I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. yet it still includes a good amount of the prior symbolism (rabbits, eggs etc)!

This is an oft-repeated canard for which there is basically no evidence. In particular, there's no evidence for "easter bunnies" prior to 17th century protestant Germany, who then brought it to the US, when they migrated to Pennsylvania (ie: The Pennsylvania Dutch). Those aspects of the celebration aren't Christian or pagan, they're secular things that people do because it's fun for the kids, and that has always been the case.

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#64

Post by rat87 »

danwills wrote: post #14

I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. yet it still includes a good amount of the prior symbolism (rabbits, eggs etc)! Still great to have a short break from work! Not arguing against it at all, it just seems a bit bizarre to me overall.

Easter is not a Pagan holiday. Its only named similarly in German and English. If it's linked to any other religious holiday it would be the Jewish holiday of Passover, in most languages it's name is based on Paschal/Pesach(passover) and the last supper was likely a passover meal. Early Christians timed Easter based on the Hebrew calendar/Passover

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#65

Post by johannes1234321 »

xg15 wrote: post #58
johannes1234321 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Germans specifically: The "Christkind" is Baby Jesus Well, that is a good example to see how those things develop. Martin Luther didn't like how saints were praised and tried to convince people to pray to Christ instead of Saint Nicolas. Which then Catholic reaches formed to the Christkind. (And then later Coca Cola took over spreading Santa Clause in their style)

> Martin Luther didn't like how saints were praised and tried to convince people to pray to Christ instead of Saint Nicolas. Which then Catholic reaches formed to the Christkind. #maliciouscompliance But really, that's interesting! I didn't know Luther was the origin of this. Even more, it's almost a Christmas ritual of its own to discuss whether the presents are brought by Santa or the Christkind, etc. Wasn't aware…

The Weihnachtsmann giving presents on 24th/25th is a lot older than Coca Cola and a combination of many traditions, but yes, the English name Santa Claus came via Dutch Sinterclaas to the U.S., while originating from Saint Nicholas, who is celebrated Dec 6th.

While the Saint Nicholas celebration with Krampus etc. also integrated pre-Christian traditions.

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#66

Post by rat87 »

swat535 wrote: post #56
danwills wrote: post #14

I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. yet it still includes a good amount of the prior symbolism (rabbits, eggs etc)! Still great to have a short break from work! Not arguing against it at all, it just seems a bit bizarre to me overall.

I've spent a fair amount of time studying ancient Sumerian culture and religion as a hobby, and the often repeated claim that "Easter comes from Ishtar" just doesn't hold up to even minimal scrutiny. It's one of those internet factoids that sounds plausible on the surface but completely falls apart under actual historical or linguistic analysis. There's no serious academic support for a connection between the Christi…

Note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%92ostre not Ishtar. While we don't have much evidence for a goddess called Eostre she appears to have been the origin for the name of Easter in English and maybe German. That is according to an 8th century English Monk(don't have any other sources, so I think it might not be universal believed by historians). But on the other hand there's not much evidence much besides the name (and only in English and maybe German) transferred and despite claims of some bunnies and eggs appear to be much later customs. Also in most languages Easter is related to the name for Passover which is the religous holiday most linked to Easter (in English we also have Paschal which can refer to both holidays)

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#67

Post by rolandog »

pkphilip wrote: post #41
photios wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. The Eostre connection is unconvincing. Eostre is a Saxon goddess with earliest sources about her cult from 8th century and: - Easter has been celebrated before 8th century. - And it has been celebrated by people that have n…

The connection goes further back to Asheroth - the Cannanite goddess of fertility.

The world was not ready for such religions then [0]:

> There are several reasons why the worship of Baal and Asherah was such a problem for Israel. First, the worship of Baal and Asherah held the allure of illicit sex, since the religion involved ritual prostitution. [...]

The Asherahs/Ashtoreths probably needed better branding.

[0]: https://www.gotquestions.org/Baal-and-Asherah.html

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#68

Post by jltsiren »

swat535 wrote: post #56
danwills wrote: post #14

I find it odd how Easter, a pre-Christian Pagan festival (worshipping goddess of fertility: Eostre) has become seemingly-arbitrarily connected to the purported events at the end of Jesus' life.. yet it still includes a good amount of the prior symbolism (rabbits, eggs etc)! Still great to have a short break from work! Not arguing against it at all, it just seems a bit bizarre to me overall.

I've spent a fair amount of time studying ancient Sumerian culture and religion as a hobby, and the often repeated claim that "Easter comes from Ishtar" just doesn't hold up to even minimal scrutiny. It's one of those internet factoids that sounds plausible on the surface but completely falls apart under actual historical or linguistic analysis. There's no serious academic support for a connection between the Christi…

But this was about Eostre. Whatever the name meant and wherever it came from, it was pretty clearly the origin of the word "Easter". And there is reasonable evidence of a Germanic goddess with a name something like Eostre or Ostara, related to various Indo-European dawn goddesses, such as Eos, Aurora, and Ushas.

Re: Why is Good Friday called Good Friday?

#70

Post by rat87 »

fortran77 wrote: post #55
LtWorf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realise that jewish people have had easter for a certain number of years before christ?

Ummm, Jews don't have Easter. Right now we are in the Chol Hamoed part of Passover/Pesach, with the Chag resuming and sundown tonight and continuing for 2 days.

Yeah he worded it oddly but in other languages the word for Easter is related to the word for Passover or even the same
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