Earlier quoted context omitted.
Financial aid fraud.
How are they able to profit off that? Doesnt the school cost money which the aid would just reimburse?
Tuition aid mediated through a school's financial office is not the only form of aid.
As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
61–70 of 147 posts
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
The second order effects of cheap education are immense, ranging from longer life span, better health, stronger economies, amongst just a few. The matter at hand, specifically, is one about how our ability to verify is overwhelmed by our ability to generate content. This is playing out with recruitment, bug reports, complaint forms - and going all the way up to sophisticated fraud.
The third order effect of handing out money for nothing, is the chicks coming home to roost as anti-education movements tear down the nation.
Europe as a whole manages to hand over money for nothing to would-be students in need without any anti-education backlash. An anti-education stance is the cause of protesting education subsidies, not their consequence.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#63The author tried really hard to dance around the real problem here: California is apparently paying students to attend online community college. If attending these classes was even just free, this wouldn't be a problem. Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous.
On one hand, students need to pay for food and rent, so it makes sense. I used loans, grants, scholarships, and financial aid to pay for these expenses myself when I was in school.
On the other hand, maybe the barrier to entry is just waaayyy too low for online community college classes for this to make any sense. Students should have some skin in the game. Maybe students should be required to take a couple in person classes before financial aid can be used for online classes?
I don't think the article was dancing around it though.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous." This is also a sales pitch, playing to the far-right. (virtue signaling)
You think virtue signalling is playing to the far right? Care to define... any of your terms?
One can virtue signal on either political spectrum, obviously. Phatic, performative language and gestures to indicate allegiance and supplication are possible for any given philosophy. Bumper stickers are literally virtue signalling.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous." This is also a sales pitch, playing to the far-right. (virtue signaling)
You think virtue signalling is playing to the far right? Care to define... any of your terms?
The concept of virtue signaling does not imply a particular group that the signal is intended for, and absolutely can be for the far right.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does online education suck? When I went to university, the first week we received the syllabus, and date for final examination. Lectures were some old professors pretty much just doing book recitals in a large auditorium - little to no interaction with the students. If you had questions, that's what the TAs were for. Any actual learning, you had to do in the library or study halls - and hopefully join a reading/s…
Very few students watch lectures online. There is massive amounts of cheating in online courses. Almost no online course requires proctored exams. Online education is overall worse, in terms of actual learning, than face-to-face courses.
But it's still better than no course option available to people that can't attend in person. So the question becomes how do we improve it.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#67Isn't the solution really easy? Make the students show up on the first day in-person, compare.with ID and take a photo.
This only adds a small amount of friction. Some more effective options off the top of my head:
1. free classes but no aid 2. pay covered costs directly 3. tie aid to participation (not performance)
You could argue someone could still scam the system by attending the class and submiting AI-generated content or just copying others, but this is much more involved. Some of the blame has to land on the distance programs of the institutions. They've become overly relient on charging full tuition for much cheaper online delivery, and don't care too much about the "community" part of college anymore.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#68The author tried really hard to dance around the real problem here: California is apparently paying students to attend online community college. If attending these classes was even just free, this wouldn't be a problem. Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous.
No such thing as free education. Just subsidized education. Costs would be pushed entirely to tax payers, many of whom have never attended college themselves. Demand, costs, taxes and state deficits would increase. The incentive for fraud would be pushed up one level to the administration.
Yeah thats why free K-12 education is bad! /s
We all understand the context of words here. Believe it or not, many people think that the government providing things for its citizens via taxation is a good thing.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#69The author tried really hard to dance around the real problem here: California is apparently paying students to attend online community college. If attending these classes was even just free, this wouldn't be a problem. Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous.
Giving student aid beyond just free classes enables students who would otherwise need to spend time working to support themselves to instead attend school to get a better life. Generally that's considered a good thing, not worthy of the disdain you're displaying.
You present hypothetical scenario of up against the reality they getting paid to “attend” online class is a total farce, diluting the value of a diploma or degree from that community college system well also stealing away resources.
Re: As 'Bot' Students Continue to Flood In, Community Colleges Struggle to Respond
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Giving student aid beyond just free classes enables students who would otherwise need to spend time working to support themselves to instead attend school to get a better life. Generally that's considered a good thing, not worthy of the disdain you're displaying.
I'm mixed. If we lived in a utopian world where money isn't real, I'd agree. Reality is California has major budget issues. Offering the classes for free is already enough in the current climate. Working while going to school is not uncommon or isolated to California. Full time work while going to school is excessive - but that is also a California COL issue that the state needs to actually tackle. But it gets worse…
> Full time work while going to school is excessive ...
For a healthy, driven person, without other major responsibilities (or a time-sucking internet addiction)? No, it really is not excessive.
And that's assuming that "going to school" is also full time. Taking just one or two classes per term is an old tradition at community colleges.