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Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

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Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#61

Post by randomdata »

vph wrote: post #48
johnnyjustice wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, a bunch of students with failed/successful experience is better than a bunch of students who go to college, because they were "suppose" to. I think its best to opt for more freedom, when it comes to picking who they want to spend their adulthood. These new paths aren't for everyone but that's why we should consider this an alternate solution, not a one size fits all one.

>Incorrect, a bunch of students with failed/successful experience is better than a bunch of students who go to college, because they were "suppose" to. Not all college students attended college because they are "supposed to". Even for those who attend college because they are "supposed to", it is arguable that they will end up being better than choosing not to go to college. If someone has no idea what he wants to do…

> Most people need a formal education.

Education is valuable for many reasons, but need is a pretty strong word. Larry Page and Sergey Brin probably wouldn't have become who they are without their education, but they are rare exceptions on the other end of the spectrum.

Does the average person destined to work at an average job at an average company for average pay really need one?

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#62

Post by espadagroup »

trimbo wrote: post #22
espadagroup wrote: post #2

Interesting how the author choose to profile only fellows whose ventures had no revenue. Kind of like a indirect finger poking.

Are you aware of any that have revenue? If so, please reference it.

The author earlier in the article referenced the fact that a handful had revenue.

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#63

Post by argv_empty »

randomdata wrote: post #51
Jd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the problematic conflation exists in the original program, insofar as the 20 under 20 program is often described as a potential replacement for higher ed. As far as I see things, there are a whole bunch of extra factors which are much more extensive than your three categories and which require a much more rigorous analysis. For example, how do we foster innovation in specific subjects? For instance…

> It is, nonetheless, billed as a solution for all sorts of problems for which it is not I have never had that impression from Thiel himself, though others have certainly spun it that way. He seems very much in favour of traditional formal education, unless your life goals are to have a career; in which case he promotes focusing on that instead. The problem, as you describe, is that many people enter college for four…

Four years of being in the working world would have put them in the same standing, plus they'd have valuable experience to propel them into better jobs.

Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience. I see a lot of people say they'd rather hire employees with four years of experience than hire straight out of college, but I don't see many who are hiring high school graduates for those first four years.

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#64

Post by randomdata »

argv_empty wrote: post #63
randomdata wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is, nonetheless, billed as a solution for all sorts of problems for which it is not I have never had that impression from Thiel himself, though others have certainly spun it that way. He seems very much in favour of traditional formal education, unless your life goals are to have a career; in which case he promotes focusing on that instead. The problem, as you describe, is that many people enter college for four…

Four years of being in the working world would have put them in the same standing, plus they'd have valuable experience to propel them into better jobs. Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience. I see a lot of people say they'd rather hire employees with four years of experience than hire straight out of colleg…

> Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience.

Which is the exact same situation a college graduate who put nothing into their education will be in, just several years later. You can leverage your time in a post-secondary school to move immediately into a better job in the future, but it is not the default.

In the meantime, the high school graduate has taken an entry level job and applied their own educational pursuits to move up the ladder at work and after four years is taking on the same kinds of jobs that someone who worked hard in college is.

The moral is that learning takes time and effort. There are no shortcuts, but there is no clearly defined path either. I find it a little disturbing that this article thinks these people should be overnight successes after just one year. Let's revisit them in ten and see where they stand. I expect they will be doing just fine.

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#65

Post by argv_empty »

randomdata wrote: post #64
argv_empty wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years of being in the working world would have put them in the same standing, plus they'd have valuable experience to propel them into better jobs. Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience. I see a lot of people say they'd rather hire employees with four years of experience than hire straight out of colleg…

> Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience. Which is the exact same situation a college graduate who put nothing into their education will be in, just several years later. You can leverage your time in a post-secondary school to move immediately into a better job in the future, but it is not the default. In the…

In the meantime, the high school graduate has taken an entry level job and applied their own educational pursuits to move up the ladder at work and after four years is taking on the same kinds of jobs that someone who worked hard in college is.

You conveniently forget what kind of employer is actually likely to hire people who just finished high school.

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#66

Post by randomdata »

argv_empty wrote: post #65
randomdata wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Four years of being in the working world would have had them working in the kind of job one could get with a high school education and no experience. Which is the exact same situation a college graduate who put nothing into their education will be in, just several years later. You can leverage your time in a post-secondary school to move immediately into a better job in the future, but it is not the default. In the…

In the meantime, the high school graduate has taken an entry level job and applied their own educational pursuits to move up the ladder at work and after four years is taking on the same kinds of jobs that someone who worked hard in college is. You conveniently forget what kind of employer is actually likely to hire people who just finished high school.

I am not sure how the exact job is relevant, really. Every job has problems that can be solved in new and creative ways and that's where you start to make your mark.

To appeal to the local crowd: If you end up as a barista and, unsatisfied with your efficiencies, you go home and write a program that solves the optimum way to prepare the different kinds of coffee you now:

a) Are a more productive and therefore more valuable employee

b) Have a product that could be worth quite a bit to your employer, and perhaps the competition too

c) Have professional experience writing software using algorithms that the average professional programmer cannot even utilize

The catch is that you have to actually do it. Your typical high school graduate who does not go onto college generally did not go onto college because they do not have the drive to go over and above like that. That skews the statistics in such a way that it makes it look like having a degree matters.

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#67

Post by carterschonwald »

randomdata wrote: post #60
ippisl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to [1], 93% of small business owners earn roughly less than $200,000. and 74% earn less than 100K. Business owners are 10% of the working population, so only 2.6% percent of the working population earn more than $100,000 by owning a business. And considering the fact that many wealthy business owners do have a degree(lawyers, dentists, etc.), college seems the more scalable way to wealth. And even if you co…

Business owners, like the general working population, are a mixed pool of those with degrees and those without. Given how many business owners earn less than $100K, including those with degrees, it further highlights my point that having a degree doesn't really give an advantage to finding financial success. > (lawyers, dentists, etc.), college seems the more scalable way to wealth. Less than 1% of the population hav…

False. There's a glut of lawyers. For the good paying legal jobs, it's insanely competitive. By that I mean "oh crap, you better be at least borderline brilliant and incredibly hard working"

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#68

Post by carterschonwald »

randomdata wrote: post #60
ippisl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to [1], 93% of small business owners earn roughly less than $200,000. and 74% earn less than 100K. Business owners are 10% of the working population, so only 2.6% percent of the working population earn more than $100,000 by owning a business. And considering the fact that many wealthy business owners do have a degree(lawyers, dentists, etc.), college seems the more scalable way to wealth. And even if you co…

Business owners, like the general working population, are a mixed pool of those with degrees and those without. Given how many business owners earn less than $100K, including those with degrees, it further highlights my point that having a degree doesn't really give an advantage to finding financial success. > (lawyers, dentists, etc.), college seems the more scalable way to wealth. Less than 1% of the population hav…

False. There's a glut of lawyers. For the good paying legal jobs, it's insanely competitive. By that I mean "oh crap, you better be at least borderline brilliant and incredibly hard working"

Re: Peter Thiel's College Dropouts: How's That Working Out?

#69

Post by acgourley »

potatolicious wrote: post #36
acgourley wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are also plenty of businesses with millions of users that only get revenue later in their life. For the first few years, traction besides revenue is certainly acceptable evidence of progress.

> "But there are also plenty of businesses with millions of users that only get revenue later in their life." No. No . NO. This is one of the most common stories told in the Valley, but it's also an immense case of confirmation bias. How many companies with millions users had no revenue for a long time and then became immensely successful later on with a viable monetization strategy? Google . Maaaaaybe Facebook, the…

What if you weight it by dollars earned instead of just successful companies? Having google and maybe facebook on your side isn't so bad then.
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