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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#61

Post by _DeadFred_ »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #35
barbarr wrote: post #11

Is there any proof that they're coding errors? A simpler explanation, to me at least, is that they first blanket fired people by dubious criteria, and are now using this as an excuse to backpedal when they realize they've cut something important.

It's either an actual 'coding error' because DOGE doesn't actually understand WTF they're doing or it's what you're suggesting. So it's Incompetence or Malice. Pick your poison.

The Trump admin has stated over and over it is malice.

Russell Vought, Trump’s pick for the director of the Office of Management and Budget (a job he held during Trump’s first term), has said: “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work, because they are increasingly viewed as the villains.” https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/11/books/review/administrati...

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#62

Post by tombert »

the_snooze wrote: post #12
mlinhares wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you're nearing retirement and you look at this mess, you're not coming back, there won't be anything to be done. Its a trap. They'll get these folks back, there will be nobody else to do the work and they'll come back and say "see, these people were useless, we were right in firing them".

>Its a trap. Trust is efficient. Lack of trust is inefficient. If someone untrustworthy like Musk fired me and suddenly wanted a do-over, I'd counter with a completely selfish arrangement like a $500/hr contracting rate with some non-trivial amount due up front.

Tangential, but I almost never get to tell this story.

In 2012 I was fired from a job (on my birthday!). I hated this job, I hated my coworkers, I really hated my manager, I was pretty sure that the higher-ups were alcoholics since they always smelled like beer or whiskey, and the work was mind-numbing where quite literally 3/4 of my work was designing nametags even though I was ostensibly a "Java developer".

Anyway, I got fired, and while getting fired always sucks, I was a little relieved that I didn't have to show up anymore.

The following Monday, I got a phone call from my manager demanding that I provide the password to unlock the Macbook that they had me using. I explained to him that I think it's a bad idea to share my password with people that I don't trust. He then told me that I "had" to provide it, to which I said "I really don't think I do, actually. I don't work for anymore. What are you going to do, fire me?"

This went back and forth for another thirty seconds, and eventually I said "Here's what we'll do, I'll drive over there, unlock the laptop, and drive back home, and you pay for my entire trip. I charge $200/hour."

He was clearly pissed off, eventually hung up, and I never heard back from them. A part of me likes to think that maybe they had to trash the laptop because they were too incompetent to figure out how to wipe the drive.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#63

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

hattmall wrote: post #52
xyst wrote: post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

For most people, particularly those who don't work in government. The federal government represents problems, aggravation, frustration and general resentment. Practically no one walks away from interactions with the federal government with a positive feeling. Dealing with the bureaucracy is generally awful. Most of the time you will go through several employees over the course of hours/days/weeks or even years and yo…

Baha

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#64

Post by theteapot »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #49
theteapot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's they? The Department of Health and Human Services?

There are proximate causes and there are the real causes. Yes, HHS let them go, but the reality is DOGE told HHS to cut them.

The article states:

> "It’s unclear to what extent the employee lists used in the RIFs were influenced by the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) .."

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#65

Post by stikit »

jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#66

Post by foobarbecue »

jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

I think it's worse than that. Appears to me that the methodology here is intentional sabotage of the government. When your platform is explictly anti-government (also, explictly anti-empathy, and implictly anti-expert), and someone hands you the government, you smash it, along with the lives of all those losers who dedicated themselves to public service.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#67

Post by shakna »

bandrami wrote: post #17

I stg DOGE is going to rewrite the Social Security software stack and it's going to crash and burn on the first person whose last name is "Null"

They're going to try and rewrite the IRS' Individual Master File, and not care if it changes the way it behaves.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#68

Post by jmcgough »

xyst wrote: post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

We will never recover from the damage they are doing, at least not in our lifetimes. It is so much easier to destroy than to create, and so many of the services and research performed by the NIH and CDC are truly irreplaceable.

The top cause of death among US children is drowning, and the CDC is the only national group studying and giving prevention training to at risk kids, particularly states with high drowning deaths like Florida. That entire team is gone now, along with many others.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#69

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

> The spokesperson added: “This is exactly why HHS is reorganizing its administrative functions to streamline operations and fix the broken systems left to us by the Biden administration.

On previous software teams where I've worked, we had a joke that "You get to blame the guy who left for one month." That is you can do this type of complaining, "Oh man, this codebase is spaghetti, screw Bill who just left", for a month. But after a month, you no longer got to blame the guy who left - at that point, it was on you.

We said it (somewhat) tongue in cheek, but there was a real message that, at some point, it doesn't really matter what the guy before you did - we've all dealt with legacy, shitty codebases, but at some point you need to own it.

I realize taking any sort of responsibility for something that goes wrong is anathema to the current administration, but I think the "it's Biden's fault" excuse is going to start wearing really thin, even for Trump supporters if/when the economic shit show starts to affect them.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#70

Post by grues-dinner »

> A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision.

It was true in 1979, it's true today.

Blaming "coding" for this is an explicit admission that someone is shirking their accountability.

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