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France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

arstechnica.com

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Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#61

Post by pests »

tedunangst wrote: post #56
nottorp wrote: post #2

Actually Apple were fined because they don't apply the same standard to their own pop-ups that allow users to reject tracking. On Apple popups you seem to need one click, while on 3rd party popups you need to confirm twice. So the fine seems to be for treating 3rd parties differently from their own stuff. They could make their own popups require double confirmation instead...

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

Domino's?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#62

Post by arrosenberg »

tedunangst wrote: post #56
nottorp wrote: post #2

Actually Apple were fined because they don't apply the same standard to their own pop-ups that allow users to reject tracking. On Apple popups you seem to need one click, while on 3rd party popups you need to confirm twice. So the fine seems to be for treating 3rd parties differently from their own stuff. They could make their own popups require double confirmation instead...

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

It's anti-competitive. Apple owns the platform and is giving preference to it's own apps on that platform. Every non-Apple app that competes with an Apple app is harmed.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#63

Post by kemayo »

refulgentis wrote: post #42
duskwuff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure this is fixable? Not from Apple's end. Apple mandates that all requests for permissions go through a single, OS-provided dialog. If a user accepts, the permission is granted; if the user rejects, the permission is not granted, and the app can't ask again. Simple enough. App developers try to maximize their chances of getting that permission granted by adding another warm-up dialog before actually doing…

> There is nothing which requires third-party developers to use these additional dialogs. Well, yes there is: I don't have carte blanche to do whatever I want with your data because you tapped an Apple dialog: I have to obtain your consent first.

I don't see why that matters? Your app triggered the Apple dialog to be shown, asking a question about what your app is allowed to do, and you can see what the answer the user gave is. Why wouldn't that be enough?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#64

Post by tarentel »

crazygringo wrote: post #35
nottorp wrote: post #2

Actually Apple were fined because they don't apply the same standard to their own pop-ups that allow users to reject tracking. On Apple popups you seem to need one click, while on 3rd party popups you need to confirm twice. So the fine seems to be for treating 3rd parties differently from their own stuff. They could make their own popups require double confirmation instead...

I'm genuinely confused. Where's the double part? When I install an app I get a single popup asking whether I want to share with advertisers or not. I don't have to do anything twice. Is it different in Europe or something? Is there a second popup there, and if so, what?

I'm assuming there are additional GDPR compliance asks in Europe when using apps. If that's the case I don't see how that is Apple's fault. I wish this article was a bit better but after reading a few of them I still don't get what the actual complaint is.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#65

Post by jtmarl1n »

pests wrote: post #61
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

Domino's?

US-based Pizza restaurant

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#66

Post by FridgeSeal »

Some apps have a “pre permissions” pop up telling users about what permissions they’re about to ask for, before then initiating the iOS permissions pop up.

The Apple apps go straight to the permissions pop up.

How is it Apples fault they do this?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#67

Post by surgical_fire »

tedunangst wrote: post #56
nottorp wrote: post #2

Actually Apple were fined because they don't apply the same standard to their own pop-ups that allow users to reject tracking. On Apple popups you seem to need one click, while on 3rd party popups you need to confirm twice. So the fine seems to be for treating 3rd parties differently from their own stuff. They could make their own popups require double confirmation instead...

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

It doesn't really matter if you are "fine" with their anti-conpetitive behavior. They should comply to regulations properly.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#68

Post by tedunangst »

arrosenberg wrote: post #62
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

It's anti-competitive. Apple owns the platform and is giving preference to it's own apps on that platform. Every non-Apple app that competes with an Apple app is harmed.

So the solution is Apple will be forced to trust that apps asked properly, and grant whatever permissions the app claims I agreed to? And that's going to encourage me to use more third party apps?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#69

Post by tedunangst »

surgical_fire wrote: post #67
tedunangst wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually okay with the Apple Camera app asking me once and the Domino's Pizza app having to ask me twice. Who are the consumers being harmed here?

It doesn't really matter if you are "fine" with their anti-conpetitive behavior. They should comply to regulations properly.

Why do we have regulations? Who do they benefit?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#70

Post by arrosenberg »

tedunangst wrote: post #68
arrosenberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's anti-competitive. Apple owns the platform and is giving preference to it's own apps on that platform. Every non-Apple app that competes with an Apple app is harmed.

So the solution is Apple will be forced to trust that apps asked properly, and grant whatever permissions the app claims I agreed to? And that's going to encourage me to use more third party apps?

If they want to own the platform and compete on it simultaneously, they need to abide by the same common carrier rules they impose on everyone else. They could easily achieve this by enforcing the same level of security on their own apps.
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