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Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

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Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#61

Post by aaronbaugher »

mekster wrote: post #43
asveikau wrote: post #9

ZFS is probably the biggest reason for me. I have a machine with a zfs pool running samba and nfsd. Philosophically I tend to prefer *BSDs over Linux. I have a few FreeBSD machines, one OpenBSD, and one Linux.

Ubuntu can have zfs with an install of a package. BSD’s inability to utilize docker ecosystem had me decided to stick with Ubuntu for a decade, unless things change and BSD gets clear advantages over Linux.

Ubuntu can have ZFS. FreeBSD just does, as long as you select "ZFS on root" for your disk layout when you install. It just works, and then you automatically get things like snapshots and easy rollback during upgrades.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#62

Post by csdvrx »

johnklos wrote: post #59
csdvrx wrote: post #13

The main complain of the author seems to be that linux use systemd. In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic (ex: when this and that happen, start doing this, except when such and such are present) Most of the problems I've seen come from trying to duplicate systemd functions: in the author example, why bother with rsyslog or network-manager? I…

> I have also seen many people refusing to learn modern tools One of the reasons I prefer NetBSD (and the BSDs in general) is that they don't change gratuitously. The ifconfig / ip example you use is good: Why? If we look at the reasoning given, it was that they didn't want to make big changes to ifconfig, so they made a whole new set of commands, even though the BSDs have extended ifconfig many times. So that ends u…

> One of the reasons I prefer NetBSD (and the BSDs in general) is that they don't change gratuitously.

I like BSDs for the integration and the performance.

> So that ends up meaning that how-tos just don't work any more

Complexity (or change) doesn't come out of nowhere: sometimes, new tools must be learned.

> isn't good enough when clean, well thought out systems already exist.

I also love well thought out systems, but I think systemd is one of these "well thought out" systems.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#63

Post by Klonoar »

csdvrx wrote: post #50
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the various BSD and distributions like postmarket OS, but I wish they had access to modern tools instead of having to "roll my own" with scripts or make do with what they depend on It sounds like you wish they used systemd. "Modern" is rarely a good description, and at 15 years old I don't think systemd qualifies as such anyways.

> It sounds like you wish they used systemd I do. > "Modern" is rarely a good description Then call it reliable and dependable. Modern doesn't always win for me: I prefer vim to neovim, or bash to zsh. Having a solid set of features and a good integration does. If you are curious, see https://marcelofern.com/posts/linux/goodbye_zsh/index.html which mirrors my reasons to prefer bash

Postmarket actually wound up porting systemd somewhat recently.

https://postmarketos.org/blog/2024/03/05/adding-systemd/

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#64

Post by Klonoar »

graemep wrote: post #28
csdvrx wrote: post #13

The main complain of the author seems to be that linux use systemd. In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic (ex: when this and that happen, start doing this, except when such and such are present) Most of the problems I've seen come from trying to duplicate systemd functions: in the author example, why bother with rsyslog or network-manager? I…

> In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic The author is talking about home servers that do not need the complex logic.

Basic systemd is really not that complex.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#65

Post by Klonoar »

doublerabbit wrote: post #45

Linus is too in-bed with Microsoft. RedHat the main powerhouse behind Linux ans is now owned by IBM. And Ubuntu is just corporate Debian who pushes their own proprietary (Flatpak) software which is cobbled together and just generally sucks. Systemd is bloated in wanting to do everything at once. I have never had a linux systemd distribution that just shutdowns without prompting me "waiting x/2minutes - x/y retries".…

Wifi? You mean the thing where people often resort to running a Linux VM to handle it?

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#66

Post by citrin_ru »

rollcat wrote: post #24

I have mixed feelings about FreeBSD. Some stuff is genuinely good: major/minor release branches, the best ZFS experience you can get OOB, actual man pages, overall a lot "cleaner" than most Linux distros. OTOH when you compare it to e.g. OpenBSD (or in many instances, even Linux), it's an actual mess. The default install leaves you browsing thru the handbook to get simple things to work; it has three ( three !) disti…

> the split between /usr/local/etc and /etc constantly leaves you guessing where to find a particular config file

I started with FreeBSD and it never was a problem to me until I started to use Linux too. Now I just make symlinks from /usr/local/etc to /etc for software I use both on Linux and FreeBSD. The rule is simple - if an app is from the base system it is in /etc and if you installed some software from packages (ports) then configs will be in /usr/local/etc.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#67

Post by MisterTea »

Klonoar wrote: post #63
csdvrx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like you wish they used systemd I do. > "Modern" is rarely a good description Then call it reliable and dependable. Modern doesn't always win for me: I prefer vim to neovim, or bash to zsh. Having a solid set of features and a good integration does. If you are curious, see https://marcelofern.com/posts/linux/goodbye_zsh/index.html which mirrors my reasons to prefer bash

Postmarket actually wound up porting systemd somewhat recently. https://postmarketos.org/blog/2024/03/05/adding-systemd/

Not by choice.

> This is of course not an easy task, one of the main blockers we found as we collaborate more closely with KDE and GNOME developers is that they have a hard time with our OpenRC-based stack. In order to get KDE Plasma and GNOME working at all, we use a lot of systemd polyfills on top of OpenRC.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#68

Post by E39M5S62 »

quesera wrote: post #46
lunarlull wrote: post #31

Alpine, Void, Devuan or Artix all would have allowed author to use Linux while addressing his points of concern. I don't think the BSD's have real advantages anymore since so much core performance stuff is in Linux first. When most of the software is available on all these platforms, it mostly comes down to user preference.

I run Linux, macOS, FreeBSD, and SmartOS/illumos in various capacities personal and professional. Each has its own strengths, but I choose FreeBSD for home servers (shared file/media server. and network gateway), for a few specific reasons: - ZFS (on root, fully integrated tooling for jails, etc) - More consistency/less churn in base system (great for set-and-forget systems) - Ports/pkg (still better than any Linux p…

Can you enumerate why ports/pkg is better than any package manager on Linux?

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#69

Post by QuercusMax »

mekster wrote: post #47
rollcat wrote: post #24

I have mixed feelings about FreeBSD. Some stuff is genuinely good: major/minor release branches, the best ZFS experience you can get OOB, actual man pages, overall a lot "cleaner" than most Linux distros. OTOH when you compare it to e.g. OpenBSD (or in many instances, even Linux), it's an actual mess. The default install leaves you browsing thru the handbook to get simple things to work; it has three ( three !) disti…

I have had BSD as my router for a few years in the past and used Linux for a few decades but I never got this “BSD is cleaner” argument. Linux has man pages and Google gives you plenty more practical resources when in doubt and nothing felt unstable compared to “BSD is more tightly integrated” statement. Lack of community resource such as documents, blogs, StackOverflow answers and docker ecosystem just drove me away…

Maybe "cleaner" really means "more uniform", compared to the wide variety of Linux distros and their incompatibilities? Or like the word "intuitive", really just means "what I'm used to".

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#70

Post by csdvrx »

Klonoar wrote: post #63
csdvrx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like you wish they used systemd I do. > "Modern" is rarely a good description Then call it reliable and dependable. Modern doesn't always win for me: I prefer vim to neovim, or bash to zsh. Having a solid set of features and a good integration does. If you are curious, see https://marcelofern.com/posts/linux/goodbye_zsh/index.html which mirrors my reasons to prefer bash

Postmarket actually wound up porting systemd somewhat recently. https://postmarketos.org/blog/2024/03/05/adding-systemd/

postmarket OS with systemd is far from ready at least for the device I'm working with. I even have to prepare a serial cable to figure what's happening.

But I know that once it's fixed, it will work well, so it's motivating me to give a hand

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