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Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

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Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#61

Post by pizzly »

7thaccount wrote: post #32
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

I'm a big fan of air filters and have many in my own home that have made a big difference in quality of life as I live in a high pollen area. They can help with a lot more irritants as well that some students may be sensitive to (i.e., some students may study better if their immune system isn't in overdrive for half the school year like mine was). I'm not sure how these would help with natural gas though. I can't rea…

I'm not sure what it was but I remember learning where with a continuous runny noise in certain classes (buildings) with AC. Outside and different buildings were fine at least for me. In those effected buildings I estimate that 5% were also effected by hearing people sniff every minute or so. This definitely caused distraction while learning. A good filter on the AC would properly have solved this.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#62

Post by ninetyninenine »

Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

You ever heard of the paradox of IQ?

IQ has about a 0.2 correlation with income. The paradox arises when you zoom out for a more macro view. National IQ has about a 0.6-0.8 correlation with GDP per capita.

Performance in class rooms is definitely an IQ thing and different view points will likely generate different sets of data.

I'm interested in seeing controlled trials on individual performance, not just observing real world scenarios.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#63

Post by tangjurine »

aetherspawn wrote: post #58

I’m so confused why they installed HEPA filters to filter out LNG and methane. And HEPA filters don’t really scrub CO2 that effectively, even with a carbon membrane, so can we really expect lower CO2 levels? Considering this, what’s the actual takeaway here? Cleaner air (dust/virus free?) is better for productivity? I am asking because I want to buy the same filter for work, but I am doubtful that the $700 HEPA filte…

I'm guessing someone had a hunch and wanted to buy some HEPA filters. Also, all HEPA filters should filter air similarly, the price should be based on the rate at which air is filtered. I bought a HEPA air filter for $150 for my room.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#64

Post by vlovich123 »

frognumber wrote: post #57
amluto wrote: post #41

I wish there was more data on the effects of gasses in the air on people. We seem to know: - Elevated CO2 in rooms impairs cognitive performance. - Elevated CO2 in submarines, at levels far higher than you would see in a normal room does not appear to impact cognitive performance. - Installing carbon filters (what this study actually looked at) might improve classroom performance. - People don’t like stuffy rooms. Al…

CO2 is a proxy for many other gasses. Cheap CO2 sensors sense volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and use those to estimate CO2. Many of those gasses do impact cognitive performance. It's not obvious to me why CO2 would, but if CO2 is going up, so is everything else we breathe out. CO2 where I am is somewhere in the ≈400ppm-1000ppm range -- 0.04% or 0.1% -- and it's pretty inert. I'm not sure what harm it does. If it…

Rising co2 levels I believe are nowhere near the differential inside vs outside when windows are closed. There’s lots of reason to believe that rising co2 specifically lowers cognitive performance - our brains work on o2 and our body actively works to expel co2 as a waste product - increasing co2 levels means the body has less O2 available and has to work harder on co2 expulsion for survival instead of powering the brain.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#65

Post by d--b »

Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

Maybe or maybe not. Further research should tell.

Maybe the tests results are better because the children are more rested on the day of the test. Maybe the hum of the machine creates some kind of meditative noise that helps children concentrate. Or maybe none of that is true..

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#66

Post by sokoloff »

tangjurine wrote: post #63
aetherspawn wrote: post #58

I’m so confused why they installed HEPA filters to filter out LNG and methane. And HEPA filters don’t really scrub CO2 that effectively, even with a carbon membrane, so can we really expect lower CO2 levels? Considering this, what’s the actual takeaway here? Cleaner air (dust/virus free?) is better for productivity? I am asking because I want to buy the same filter for work, but I am doubtful that the $700 HEPA filte…

I'm guessing someone had a hunch and wanted to buy some HEPA filters. Also, all HEPA filters should filter air similarly, the price should be based on the rate at which air is filtered. I bought a HEPA air filter for $150 for my room.

There are ratings spanning H10, H11, H12, and H13 for HEPA filters.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#67

Post by strken »

mmooss wrote: post #39
bawolff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science succeeds when people lean towards the side of cynicism instead of optimism. Scientific research should be read critically.

Critical thinking and skepticism are good, but much of what happens on HN is not that. Thinking critically includes, most of all, finding value - you need to think critically (and skeptically) to avoid assigning value to things that don't have it, but you must find value. The goal is to build knowledge - just like the study author needs to find knowledge among flawed data, you must find knowledge among flawed studies…

Focusing on the flaws is vital context for helping ordinary people understand the world. Any given study with a surprising result is likely wrong. Yeah, some of them are going to be right, but you're going to get many false positives and only a handful of studies that replicate to a convincing degree.

I've made this mistake time and time again, most recently with vitamin D association studies, and I'm grateful to all the people who urged everyone else to take a wait-and-see approach.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#68

Post by eru »

xwolfi wrote: post #20
xattt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, schools able to implement air filtration and fresh air exchanges systems are likely those flush with cash and supportive parents.

And the resulting backlash 10 years down the line ? I don't think science should be used that way: who would trust it eventually ? Would you support a small study saying a medicine or a vaccine produces a 20 year life expectancy increase, all that to end up 20 years later with no improvement, everyone on that medicine, and the anti-everything yelling on every platform that the big pharma lobby poisoned our children ?…

> I don't think science should be used that way: who would trust it eventually?

There's no single party controlling 'science'. It's all just individuals many of them under 'publish or perish' rules.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#69

Post by eru »

do_not_redeem wrote: post #42
calvinmorrison wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only ycombinator would have a hard time with the concept of 'open the window' and instead expect a capital installment of $2B to retrofit classrooms

Do you think everyone lives in California where there's comfortable sunny temperatures and no rain 360 days a year? Classic ycombinator post

German schools open their windows in winter.

It's the classic German Stoßlüften in action.

However, the air outside also has lots of dusts. Opening the windows does nothing for that, but air filtration can potentially help.

Re: Installing air filters in classrooms has surprisingly large educational benefits (2020)

#70

Post by eru »

MPSFounder wrote: post #37
Aurornis wrote: post #9

I'm all for installing air filters in classrooms for a number of reasons, but I also think the extreme results from this study aren't going to hold up to further research. From the paper: > To do so, I leverage a unique setting arising from the largest gas leak in United States history, whereby the offending gas company installed air filters in every classroom, office and common area for all schools within five miles…

I wish we made more efforts to check air quality. I went to a great school, and the water filter hadnt been replaced since 2005 (it was 2012 at the time, and filters were supposed to be replaced every 6 months). My point is people take it for granted that air quality or water quality in the US is great, but if we checked, I bet most of us are exposed to cancerous materials all the time that could be easily prevented…

They would have probably been better off without a water filter?

Your local utility should send you water that doesn't need further filtering.

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