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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#61

Post by matsemann »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #58
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you compile this list? Asking some LLM service? From the first link: > It is important to note that there were insufficient data to determine if the low fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L currently recommended for U.S. community water supplies has a negative effect on children’s IQ It doesn't seem in favor of this?

Why does it matter how the list was compiled? Is the information accurate or not? The first link you referenced with the cherry picked sentence about uncertainty for levels below .7mg/l was a meta analysis of 74 different studies, 64 of which showed a negative correlation between child IQ and fluoridation. This isn’t even taking into account evidence of a positive correlation for early onset puberty, sleep disruption…

It matters because your statement of "Here’s a list of the most convincing studies or meta analyses." assumes some kind of curating. If all you're doing is providing something akin to a google search, it's not really valuable.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#62

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #33
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t any. The very little research showing any effects on cognitive abilities are experiments using very high fluoride levels - nowhere near the levels in water. Like most conservative “stances”, it’s a farce.

Why did many European countries discontinue fluoridation? https://www.euronews.com/health/2024/11/23/trump-could-push-... > However, in 1973, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that there was no legal basis for fluoridation…. The debate hasn’t been meaningfully revived since then, Hofman told Euronews Health. "People started to say, ‘Well, the government should not give us some medicine [when] we cannot choose where to bu…

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#63

Post by kelipso »

matsemann wrote: post #61
Jimmc414 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter how the list was compiled? Is the information accurate or not? The first link you referenced with the cherry picked sentence about uncertainty for levels below .7mg/l was a meta analysis of 74 different studies, 64 of which showed a negative correlation between child IQ and fluoridation. This isn’t even taking into account evidence of a positive correlation for early onset puberty, sleep disruption…

It matters because your statement of "Here’s a list of the most convincing studies or meta analyses." assumes some kind of curating. If all you're doing is providing something akin to a google search, it's not really valuable.

So what? Asking “What is the best evidence in favor of this” is equivalent to saying I don’t want to google this, so google this for me. Literally all researchers at all levels in all fields use google for this stuff. I was in academia for years.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#64

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rayiner wrote: post #33
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t any. The very little research showing any effects on cognitive abilities are experiments using very high fluoride levels - nowhere near the levels in water. Like most conservative “stances”, it’s a farce.

Why did many European countries discontinue fluoridation? https://www.euronews.com/health/2024/11/23/trump-could-push-... > However, in 1973, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that there was no legal basis for fluoridation…. The debate hasn’t been meaningfully revived since then, Hofman told Euronews Health. "People started to say, ‘Well, the government should not give us some medicine [when] we cannot choose where to bu…

> Why did many European countries discontinue fluoridation?

Could it have something to do with the increasing use of fluoridated toothpaste?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#65

Post by Gibbon1 »

rayiner wrote: post #33
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t any. The very little research showing any effects on cognitive abilities are experiments using very high fluoride levels - nowhere near the levels in water. Like most conservative “stances”, it’s a farce.

Why did many European countries discontinue fluoridation? https://www.euronews.com/health/2024/11/23/trump-could-push-... > However, in 1973, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that there was no legal basis for fluoridation…. The debate hasn’t been meaningfully revived since then, Hofman told Euronews Health. "People started to say, ‘Well, the government should not give us some medicine [when] we cannot choose where to bu…

Do not discount the tendency of Europeans to be wellness hippies.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #22
dataflow wrote: post #6

What is the best evidence in favor of this?

There isn’t any. The very little research showing any effects on cognitive abilities are experiments using very high fluoride levels - nowhere near the levels in water. Like most conservative “stances”, it’s a farce.

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#67

Post by ics »

lolinder wrote: post #24
TMWNN wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation >

Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.…

Using certain family members as a personal rubric, fluoridated water has been a right-left issue for at least 2.5 decades. I think it’s been pretty polarized for longer, though it may have taken a long time to gain steam in mainstream “discourse”.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#68

Post by jemmyw »

TMWNN wrote: post #21
codybontecou wrote: post #18

Hawaii does not add fluoride to their water. Utah may be the first to out-right ban it, but there are quite a few local communities and cities that opt-out of adding it to their drinking water. https://chatgpt.com/share/67e8572d-c5f4-8000-9393-c2e894c922...

The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation >

I was surprised to learn this. "Worldwide, the Irish Republic, Singapore and New Zealand are the only countries which implement mandatory water fluoridation."

I live in New Zealand and my town doesn't put fluoride in the water but it seems like they'll be made to do so fairly soon. I don't really care one way or the other from the point of view of ingesting the stuff, but I do consider it a bit of a waste of money. People who brush with toothpaste don't need this and people who don't are probably drinking too much soda. A more useful thing to do might be to subsidize toothpaste for people who can't / won't buy it for their kids.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#69

Post by WillPostForFood »

cosmotic wrote: post #20
WillPostForFood wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following closely, but is this pseudoscience? https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/fluoride-childrens-health-gran... https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/whatwestudy/assessments/noncancer/...

I didnt look too closely, but the concentration recommended by the FDA is much lower than many of the sample sets in that linked study. Some 10 times as much. One is a hundred times as much. Not sure if that first link was to the Harvard summary intentionally but heres the actual study: https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1104912

The second link showed a concentration as little 2x the US amount was impactful.

*The NTP monograph concluded, with moderate confidence, that higher levels of fluoride exposure, such as drinking water containing more than 1.5 milligrams of fluoride per liter, are associated with lower IQ in children. The NTP review was designed to evaluate total fluoride exposure from all sources and was not designed to evaluate the health effects of fluoridated drinking water alone. It is important to note that there were insufficient data to determine if the low fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L currently recommended for U.S. community water supplies has a negative effect on children’s IQ.*

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#70

Post by elif »

TMWNN wrote: post #21
codybontecou wrote: post #18

Hawaii does not add fluoride to their water. Utah may be the first to out-right ban it, but there are quite a few local communities and cities that opt-out of adding it to their drinking water. https://chatgpt.com/share/67e8572d-c5f4-8000-9393-c2e894c922...

The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation >

Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.
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