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Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

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Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#61

Post by giraffe_lady »

diggan wrote: post #6
JKCalhoun wrote: post #4

> ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing… The whole thing from Nick is brilliant, but I had to pick a line as an example and the above is pretty perfect. Maybe a bit orthogonal, but I find more and more examples in life where I see a distinction between the real and the "virtual". Watching someone on YouTube go on a long bike tour and then later doing my first long tour myself and I a…

> An imitation of art will never be art. As art is somewhat/sometimes an imitation of life/the world itself, why cannot an imitation of art also be considered art? I don't know the right answer (if there is one), but was the question that appeared when I read that.

Imitation can be expression or communication, which imo are much more useful concepts than "what is art" in this context. The thing here is that an AI has nothing to express, has experienced nothing, as nick cave says. Even an artist being influenced by existing art is itself a creative process based on their own experiences, which AI does not have.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#62

Post by Smeevy »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #35
jstanley wrote: post #11

I'd recommend putting some information about you in your About page. It says that the site is for answering questions from your fans, but doesn't say who you are, what you do, or why you have fans. I can Google for "Nick Cave" but I can't tell which one you are.

Yeah nah. This is genuinely one of those cases where if you know, you know. If you don't them you might find out eventually, but it's absolutely no skin off Nick Cave's nose if you never do.

I absolutely loved "Murder Ballads" and it's my favorite example of art that isn't intended for mass consumption. It's simultaneously humorous, horrifying, beatiful, and vile. There isn't a single song from that album that I ever feel the urge to skip through (unless I'm driving with my in-laws).

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#63

Post by [deleted] »

Fraterkes wrote: post #52

I usually see a lot of respones to this kind of thing that dismiss it as wishfull thinking or "coping", but consider that this also applies in the opposite direction: wouldn't it be convenient/reassuring if these talented people where brought low by technology, if we could be absolved from practicing. And yet Midjourney has been out for a while and very few of you have used it to make succesful games or webcomics. Yo…

[deleted]

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#64

Post by giraffe_lady »

Fraterkes wrote: post #52

I usually see a lot of respones to this kind of thing that dismiss it as wishfull thinking or "coping", but consider that this also applies in the opposite direction: wouldn't it be convenient/reassuring if these talented people where brought low by technology, if we could be absolved from practicing. And yet Midjourney has been out for a while and very few of you have used it to make succesful games or webcomics. Yo…

Yes I do not think it's possible to have a useful meta-conversation on this subject without discussing the absolute contempt tech workers have for creative workers. To the extent we have a culture distinct from the main stream it is based on their output (video games, fantasy & sci-fi franchises, etc) and we hate them for it. For doing what we can't? For making us love what we don't value? I don't know. But it's a key part of how this is talked about, especially here on hn.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#65

Post by fullshark »

getlawgdon wrote: post #57
fullshark wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/slang/copium Pretty good internet discourse word actually, cause there is a lot of rationalization everywhere you look online.

Usage exemplified by the venerable "@nrmaggs" and "FoxMcChief", but also Craft Brewed Sports! Honored authorities that will stand the test of time!

Now that sounds like copium about the current and future state of human discourse

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#66

Post by jdmoreira »

getlawgdon wrote: post #57
fullshark wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/slang/copium Pretty good internet discourse word actually, cause there is a lot of rationalization everywhere you look online.

Usage exemplified by the venerable "@nrmaggs" and "FoxMcChief", but also Craft Brewed Sports! Honored authorities that will stand the test of time!

aren't you just @getlawgdon on some nerd computer forum? Obviously your ego transcends space and time though. We are so sorry to bother you with our lowly internet speak.

I'm sure your HN comments will be studied as great works of literature for generations to come

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#67

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

jdmoreira wrote: post #60
Fraterkes wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you wish that were true, because it would excuse your incuriosity. It isn't. We share the world with people who genuinely love to write and read poetry, and ignore them at our own expense.

Yes, except those people are orders of magnitude less than the ones buying the books. I'm Portuguese and had to read and analyse a lot of poetry in my younger years. I'm not an ignorant that has never been expose to any of this stuff. I will bet you thousands of dollars that if I was already a poet with distribution I could publish a book where 80% of it was done with current llms and pass it as an my own original wo…

But that wouldn’t make you a poet. It would make you a liar. A lazy liar.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#68

Post by markhahn »

I think he, like many, overemphasizes the phenomenology of creativity. But he's right about the predictability of the pastiche. And after all, isn't it precisely pastiche that gen AIs are built for?

Yes, directed pastiche, sometimes even useful.

Does insight or critical thought ever come from context-based prediction?

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#69

Post by lukev »

diggan wrote: post #31
lukev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know anything about poetry, as an art form? Or are you judging purely on your (not only amateur, but complete outsider) aesthetics?

> Do you know anything about poetry, as an art form? What kind of gatekeeping is this? Parent mentioned they're read poems from their local bookstores, does that mean they don't/do understand it "as an art form"? Does their opinion become more or less valid if they do understand it "as an art form"?

I'm not gatekeeping whether they are allowed to enjoy or talk about poetry.

I am ABSOLUTELY gatekeeping whether their opinion should hold weight when opining on the trajectory of a millenia-old art form.

Re: Nick Cave's thoughts on a ChatGPT poem (2023)

#70

Post by vharuck »

jdietrich wrote: post #49
JKCalhoun wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I am wading into dangerous waters here, but I kind of also think that "good" art, or perhaps I should say a particular kind of art that resonates with ones emotions, does come from the pain and suffering of the artist. It is because we also have known pain, jealousy, the death of a loved one, etc. that art sprung from that kind of suffering will "ring true". As I type this, I am looking at a painting on the…

I'm deeply sceptical of the "tortured artist" trope. A huge proportion of the greatest songs in the American canon were written by professionals, in what amounted to a factory system. They came into work, sat at a piano and just wrote , day in and day out. We are for whatever reason drawn to the romantic notion of the artist as divinely inspired genius, but I think that profoundly diminishes their skill and work ethi…

I'm reminded of something said by a famous author (I can't remember the author's name or the exact wording, and am having a hell of a time searching for it).

Paraphrased from shoddy memory, the author was asked about how inspiration comes to him, and he said something like:

"My ideas come to me while I'm sitting at the desk in my office every morning between 7 and 11 AM."

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