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IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

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Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#61

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

If this was an argument for damages every car company would spend all its time litigating. What exactly is the difference between a Corolla and a Fusion? Why does every car have about the same shape? Is it because anything other than that isn't aerodynamic and will destroy highway mileage, or is everyone infringing on IP?

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the lawyer may have fucked up, or it may be some brilliant Perry Mason-eque trap. But if the latter, why fight the memo's introduction into evidence in the first place? So I'd guess it was a mistake. Anyway, the memo by itself doesn't damn Samsung, but in context with, oh, the radius of curvature of every corner of key products being changed to exactly match Apple's devices, the color and arrangement of…

Kind of like how Apple modeled themselves after Sony. Interesting that this sort of legal battle never happened with car manufacturers as cars from various manufacturers tend to share fashionable design attributes.

http://www.inipsoon.com/Patent/patentnews/071120037536469139...

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#63

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

Samsung Instinct?

Yep! That's the one.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#64
post #61

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

If this was an argument for damages every car company would spend all its time litigating. What exactly is the difference between a Corolla and a Fusion? Why does every car have about the same shape? Is it because anything other than that isn't aerodynamic and will destroy highway mileage, or is everyone infringing on IP?

Well-said.

And it highlights how fast people adopt tech now. Major feature changes in automobiles happen over decades, and people can rely on the look signaling major features.

Now the uptake is so rapid that consumers have a lot of opportunity to make dumber decisions. A smartphone may well impact your life more than your choice of sedan, but because a smartphone is cheap compared to a sedan you just aren't going to research the choice as thoroughly.

Really, the consumers are the problem. They need to realize that despite the low cost of computers and smartphones, their choice of computer and smartphone is sometimes a decision on the level of "apartment shopping," not "Xbox or Playstation?," when it comes to impact it will have on their day-to-day life.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#65

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

What phone does your friend use today?

He uses an LG Optimus V on Virgin Mobile because it's cheap, contract free, and is a solid little smartphone. If he was willing to drop $650 on a phone, he'd probably buy the iPhone on Virgin Mobile.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#66
post #55

Whether or not Samsung is going through some sort of "crisis of design", the pernicious nature of what Apple is doing is quite underestimated. They are trying to claim minimalism, the lack of distinction, as their own. It is the minimalism and efficiency dilemma. Fact of the matter is that current state of technology places limits and barriers that should not be permitted for patent or copyright right up against. In…

"The iPad and iPhone are not, in any significant way, unique. They are more marginal variations on existing technology and design than not."

There are interesting points you make about IP law, but you lost me in the above sentence which is just plain wrong. Perhaps you forget what the pre-iPhone cellphone market was like.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#67
post #3

From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that... Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.

[deleted]

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#68
post #61

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

If this was an argument for damages every car company would spend all its time litigating. What exactly is the difference between a Corolla and a Fusion? Why does every car have about the same shape? Is it because anything other than that isn't aerodynamic and will destroy highway mileage, or is everyone infringing on IP?

Well one difference is that patents only have a lifespan of what 20 years or so? Most of the basic tech in a car that was patented in the 1900's is free to be used and improved upon. Is new stuff patented and licensed? Yes, absolutely it is.

Notice how Toyota partnered with Tesla motors to build an EV SUV? Or what about how Ford licensed Toyota's hybrid technology back in 2004? Patents and licensing.

Given that the automotive industry is much older than the computer industry, they've likely learned the value in licensing technology where it makes sense. Nobody would claim or confuse a Ford Fusion Hybrid with a Toyota Prius.

Also, Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc. all by now have fairly distinct branding and styles, so you don't see as much where the new Ford sedan looks just like the new Chevy sedan in hopes of selling more vehicles.

Samsung seems to have made a real effort to look and sell as if they're selling iPhones and iPads. That is why they're in trouble. Notice that Apple didn't sue Blackberry for the the Storm or the Torch looking the same as the iPhone.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be better for the users? Assuming the iPhone was better than what came before. Which action from incumbents would be best for users? a) Do not copy the iPhone. Make old ugly phones. (What blackberry did) Now users are stuck with old ugly phones. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. (what windows phone did) Forces users to adapt to something new instead…

You are the founder of evolup.com. Let us say your product/service becomes a huge success. Seeing your success, existing social games developers want to do the same. Which action from those existing developers would be best for users? a) Do not copy your product/service. Continue doing things the old way. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. Forces users to adapt…

First mover advantage is pretty huge. Net effects are significant.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#70
post #55

Whether or not Samsung is going through some sort of "crisis of design", the pernicious nature of what Apple is doing is quite underestimated. They are trying to claim minimalism, the lack of distinction, as their own. It is the minimalism and efficiency dilemma. Fact of the matter is that current state of technology places limits and barriers that should not be permitted for patent or copyright right up against. In…

"The iPad and iPhone are not, in any significant way, unique. They are more marginal variations on existing technology and design than not. Capturing popular attention and leveraging inherent human desires is what garnered the devices and Apple so much fame and fortune, not the innovation or creativity."

Bullshit.

The iPhone may not be unique anymore, but when it was released, it was groundbreaking. It can be argued forever that Apple did not 'invent' multitouch [1, 2], didn't invent rounded rectangle, a grid of application icons ... etc. but they were the first ones to democratize it. The iPhone was the first device to truly have 'thought through' how a touch-only device should work for a variety of tasks. There are lots of interesting projects that never move beyond research labs; I think Apple pushed the whole industry and research community forward with the iPhone.

To look at a product as a sum of its parts is often very very misleading. That's true for the iPhone. Of course other manufacturers had to start using similar technology, but that doesn't mean that they could or should copy interaction paradigms, design details (right down to the final retail packaging). AND most other manufacturers managed to use the same technology and NOT cross the line between inspiration and ripping-off. I cannot fathom how one can look at the Samsung products in question and not see that they were more than inspired.

"You are essentially trying to force complexity and inefficiency because you have hijacked simplicity and efficiency."

Bullshit.

Simple is hard. Yes, that's an official Apple line, but anyone who's ever written a piece of code will attest to this fact. Removing cruft, making things cleaner, starting over ... is often the most difficult step. Apple clearly did the same with its products, it's clear from the prototypes it presented in court. Also, there are umpteen examples of how things can be made simpler and better than what Apple offers. At a software level, WebOS does (did) a great job of figuring out multi-tasking on mobile devices, Android is fantastic with notifications and cross-app communication (intents).

Without getting into lawyer-esque conversations, just take a look at the Samsung products in question ... you should get what this case is about (for now, just focus on things that meet the eye ... literally)

[1] Flexible Machine Interface (Nimish Mehta , University of Toronto). Published in 1982. [2] Fingerworks (1998). A company founded by Wayne Westerman and John Elias. I think Westerman went on to work for Apple. For multi-touch history, check this out http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

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