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If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

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Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#61

Post by mmastrac »

bhouston wrote: post #44
mmastrac wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. They give you 10+G, require no splicing (hardware can be found cheap now), and generally just work as you'd expect. With a 10G backbone, you can get away with basement->main and main->upstairs in a three-floor house, with a small bridge on your main floor.

> If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. Many of my devices take 10G ethernet, like MacMini and my MacBook Air docking station. Is there an easy way to convert from DAC to 10G Ethernet? The desktop has an SPF+ card so that will take DAC no problem. Unfortunately there is no way to pull an any cables easily. But someone else suggested replaceable baseboards that hide cable runs, I s…

10G media converters are available for < $50 USD, but TBH I've never used one.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#62

Post by eqvinox »

fleventynine wrote: post #48
FredFS456 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multimode transceivers are still a slight bit cheaper ($30 for 10GBASE-LR vs $22 for 10GBASE-SR on fs.com) but that's more than offset by the single mode fiber being slightly cheaper, even for short distances.

Apples to oranges. SR is for short runs inside a building. LR is for sending signals across a city. For short runs inside a building, the transceiver prices are much more comparable. Compare https://www.fs.com/products/251819.html?now_cid=4089 to https://www.fs.com/products/282973.html?now_cid=4089

SR is for when you accidentally installed MMF really.

Except, no, you can run (single lambda, not muxed) LR transceivers on MMF, it's out if spec but you actually get around +20% range before hitting dispersion limits.

I'll also note SR ranges are not in fact long enough for larger buildings. And this gets worse with higher speeds, since modal dispersion is a bandwidth problem, not attenuation.

Also, using 800G for comparison is a bit ludicrous ;). 10G is bread&butter, 25G/100G is mainline. (40G is the shunned weirdo uncle.)

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#63

Post by eqvinox »

thefz wrote: post #52

I was under the impression that once laid, fiber is the most stable and future proof between all mediums (barring physical damage). After all it won't rot, stain or degrade like copper. It's plastic, mostly.

It is, it's just not immune to physical damage. Rodents and Jackhammers…

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#64

Post by Epa095 »

mmastrac wrote: post #36
bhouston wrote: post #14

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and power outlets in various places. It is really hard to think of all the places you would want them ahead of time unfortunately and as each has a cost you don't want to incur it unnecessarily. But my biggest regrets were: - Only a single ethernet port in the basem…

If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. They give you 10+G, require no splicing (hardware can be found cheap now), and generally just work as you'd expect. With a 10G backbone, you can get away with basement->main and main->upstairs in a three-floor house, with a small bridge on your main floor.

Why DAC cables over Cat6a or Cat7

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#65

Post by nkurz »

mjevans wrote: post #34
bhouston wrote: post #14

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and power outlets in various places. It is really hard to think of all the places you would want them ahead of time unfortunately and as each has a cost you don't want to incur it unnecessarily. But my biggest regrets were: - Only a single ethernet port in the basem…

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't f…

> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative.

I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, and twisted pair.

I feel like the much better solution is to run conduit in which you can replace the cable rather than permanently putting in twice as much of whatever is in favor today. The conduit is always better, right?

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#66

Post by bhouston »

nkurz wrote: post #65
mjevans wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't f…

> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, a…

Yeah, conduit makes sense. The future in homes - from this current vantage point - is likely all wireless via multiple APs around the house that have short range but very high bandwidth. Only us power users will have wired ethernet.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#67

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

eqvinox wrote: post #59

> Fiber comes in two varieties, single mode and multi-mode. I don't know enough to know if you should make a point of running both[…] Let me fill this in: in 2025 you (and everybody else) should be running SMF. If you need to directly connect to existing MMF you should run that additionally . But do not build MMF-only in 2025. It's akin to installing Cat5 (non-E) or even Cat3. And you pay mostly for the work, not the…

Agreed. SMF can handle nearly anything. A single strand can handle 100Gb 10km for OS1 or 100km for OS2 per frequency and you can do multiple frequencies at the same time or go bidirectional, too.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#68

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

fleventynine wrote: post #13
aftbit wrote: post #7

Regarding single mode vs multi-mode ... other than cost, is there any reason at all to run multi-mode fiber in 2025? I was under the impression that single mode was better in basically every way.

Multi-mode transceivers used to be a lot cheaper than single mode, but now they're around the same price for short distances. From what I can tell, most datacenters appear to be making the switch to single mode even for in-room networking.

It's DAC in rack and then fiber or copper between spine and leaf (depends on distance, etc).

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#69

Post by epiccoleman »

nkurz wrote: post #65
mjevans wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't f…

> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, a…

> 20 year old cables?

I just bought a new house and the previous owner had phone lines everywhere (bedrooms, kitchen, office, rec room - honestly kind of weird). The house was built in 2002 and I gather that it was common at that time to put in Cat5e and just not use all the pairs.

So all it took was a pleasant afternoon with the circuit toner, a new patch panel, and a few keystone jacks, and now the house is networked beautifully. Sure, they're not in exactly the places I'd have dropped 'em if I'd been starting from scratch, but it's hard to beat cables already in the wall for zero effort!

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#70

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

eqvinox wrote: post #63
thefz wrote: post #52

I was under the impression that once laid, fiber is the most stable and future proof between all mediums (barring physical damage). After all it won't rot, stain or degrade like copper. It's plastic, mostly.

It is, it's just not immune to physical damage. Rodents and Jackhammers…

Backhoes can find fiber from miles away... they hunger for it
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