Apple should remove Terminal.app and replace it with a stub that prompts you to install iTerm2.
X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
61–70 of 128 posts
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#62I wonder if Apple risks losing its technical (i.e. programmer) users. If OS X stops feeling like a UNIX-like OS to technical users, and they move away, OS X may receive less attention from developers. And that won't be good for the platform.
Apple went to great lengths to get OS X validated as a full-on UNIX. To what degree do developers in general confuse UNIX itself with good-riddance mis-associations therewith which cause unnecessary friction against modern development? (Can we drop vi already? fine paradigm unto itself, but counter to any other 21st-century UI...)
Oh come on, suggesting to drop vi is practically flamebait.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#63How was that quote again? "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"
First they came for the communists...
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#64What I find disturbing here is the expectation that they would include it. I was speaking to a Microsoft evangelist two years ago and asked him why it took them so long to release a new version of Windows. He essentially told me that Microsoft does the best legacy support in the world and wanted to ensure that every single piece of important software could still be installed and work with the new version. He also exp…
only developers and system admins would want it installed
False. While I do make software and know how to handle situations like this, my other work is making light shows for concerts. I sometimes make use of a PC-based controller (Chamsys MagicQ PC) and recently had to borrow a Macbook to run it when I left my Thinkpad's power supply at a venue. The Mac version seems to be a port of the Linux version, itself a desktop port of the embedded software that runs their lighting consoles. It uses X11.
The experience of running it on a Mac was more or less like any other Mac software - it just had a longer startup time. Now, either the developers will have to modify it, or users will have a complicated series of steps to follow to get the software.
Sure, it's still an edge case, but Apple made the UX worse for some users here without making it better for others. That seems like a bad trade.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#65A general desktop computer shouldn't be an iPad. I think that's the central issue here.
Some people just want an iOS experience - some people want to use the full depth and power of a general purpose computer.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#66The trend only appears disturbing if you few it from a very, very high level. Apple didn't do the best job of keeping up with some OSS components included in OS X. X11 is a great example of such a component. Outside of OS X, lots of changes were occurring with X windows servers. By including X11 (or even providing their own package), Apple was actually in the way. XQuartz dates back to 2007. There were five releases…
That's a good argument for Apple not including their own version of x11. But the author was most anguished that they removed an installation of x11 that he was depending on.
Only the very latest XQuartz version actually works on Mountain Lion, so if the guy was still relying on an old, Apple-supported version, his current X11 installation would not have worked anyway.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#67Imagine if Apple removes [the floppy drive] itself in the next version of [the Mac], or decides [wi-fi] is the future and gets rid of [the Ethernet port]?
I actually found the removal of the floppy drive to be rather premature. It took several years for any of the currently popular alternatives to reach critical mass for most people. It wasn't reasonable to assume, for example that Internet access would be available on a computer you wanted to bring a file to. USB flash drives weren't available (or at least cheap and common), and it was more likely than not that a destination computer wouldn't be able to read one.
I knew a lot of people with Macs in the late '90s, and most of them bought USB floppy drives.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#68What I find disturbing here is the expectation that they would include it. I was speaking to a Microsoft evangelist two years ago and asked him why it took them so long to release a new version of Windows. He essentially told me that Microsoft does the best legacy support in the world and wanted to ensure that every single piece of important software could still be installed and work with the new version. He also exp…
The first time I tried to open Gimp after upgrading to Mountain Lion, OS X popped up a prompt telling me that X11 was now provided by the XQuartz project, and it had a link to go download it.
Barely different from trying to run Java software and getting the "You need Java, click here to install it" dialog box.
Apple may not be releasing X11 any more, but they made sure the experience was relatively simple. And give the number of people who actually use X11 (as a percentage of Mac users) it seems like a pretty fair decision.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cherry pick? Apple has a long history of removing what most users don't use. RS-232, Centronix ("printer"), FireWire, VGA, Ethernet, and various other ports have all been dropped over time. Floppy (both 5.25" & 3.5"), CD, DVD, and probably other media (escaping me) support gone. Blu-ray in effect dropped before even included. Likewise, various software support has been eradicated over time as use dwindled to more-has…
>Apple has a long history of removing what most users don't use. Apple has a long history of removing what they think users shouldn't use.
And they're generally right as well.
Re: X11 and the disturbing trend of Apple removing functionality from OS X
#70What I find disturbing here is the expectation that they would include it. I was speaking to a Microsoft evangelist two years ago and asked him why it took them so long to release a new version of Windows. He essentially told me that Microsoft does the best legacy support in the world and wanted to ensure that every single piece of important software could still be installed and work with the new version. He also exp…
only developers and system admins would want it installed False. While I do make software and know how to handle situations like this, my other work is making light shows for concerts. I sometimes make use of a PC-based controller (Chamsys MagicQ PC) and recently had to borrow a Macbook to run it when I left my Thinkpad's power supply at a venue. The Mac version seems to be a port of the Linux version, itself a deskt…
Sure, it's still an edge case, but Apple made the UX worse for some users here without making it better for others. That seems like a bad trade.
False. Seriously, you are blaming Apple because of program for which "The Mac version seems to be a port of the Linux version, itself a desktop port of the embedded software that runs their lighting consoles" which runs on X11?
There are genuine uses cases for X11, but users who can't figure out how to install it are at the very beginning of a gauntlet of pain. That Apple is not ushering them into the gauntlet seems, at best, neutral.