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Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

arstechnica.com

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Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#61

Post by amiga386 »

Aachen wrote: post #34
djoldman wrote: post #7

> This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites. I'm always curious about jurisdiction on this stuff. If Cloudflare had no physical machines, employees, and proper…

What do you mean what law? See the court case, they've issued it and so they can either pay it or see what Italy wants to do about it If you get a speeding ticket in North Korea and fly off before it arrives at the car rental, you can ask what law the rental is going to use to get the money from you abroad. You can not pay and choose to never visit the country again. In Cloudflare's case, however, they probably want…

I'm not sure North Korea is a place you'd make a car rental, but this is now 99% of car rentals work:

1. You agree up-front in the contract with the car rental company that you will pay for all fines, parking tickets, etc. you might incur during the rental. You agree ahead of time the rental company won't waste any money defending you, arguing you didn't do it, and will instead pay the whole fine immediately and pass it on to you, and payment will be automatically taken. You always agree this because otherwise they just don't rent the car to you.

2. You incur a fine.

3. The authorities fine the owner of the vehicle, which is the rental company.

4. The rental company immediately bills you for the fine, converted to the currency you paid them in, using your payment details, and they add an extra administrative fee as well.

5. The rental company pays themselves and the fine-issuing authority with your money.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#62

Post by bitpush »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #57
xvector wrote: post #54

Why is Europe like this? I feel like this is what happens when you have a region that can't innovate and only knows how to regulate. Innovators cease to be represented at the government level and the general public equates regulation with safety. The result is an increasing amount of absurd policymaking related to technology.

>Why is Europe like this? Italy isn't Europe. Europe isn't Italy, either.

I didn't see any rage like this when EU was hammering Zuckerberg.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#63

Post by FirmwareBurner »

drpossum wrote: post #48
amarcheschi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions. I know of nobody supporting such draconian measures. However, the government, the football league and the guys taking decisions at agcom (which in the past has been a serious and respected agency for the battle he took with tech companies) are, quite apparently, banding together to make the football league will become reality above anything else

[flagged]

Ursula v.d. Leyen, the president of the European Commission, is not voted by the EU people the same way the US president is for example, she's appointed by the European Parliament's own elections who act sort of as a middle man.

So in that regard no, we don't have elected leaders, since Ursula, the de-facto EU leader, makes giant trade and political deals in our name, like regarding Covid and Ukraine, but none of us here voted for her, nobody likes her, she's been incompetent as German politician, she's incompetent and corrupt as an EU politician, she's been groomed since youth for this position due to her influential family, and yet we can't vote her out if we don't like it since we didn't vote for her to begin with.

So when someone you didn't vote for has sovereignty over you and your country, I'm not sure how people can look at this and say it's a democratic arrangement. Do you think a privileged upper class politician from Germany has any clue about the impact or struggles of the average citizen in say, Bulgaria, when she makes decisions for the whole EU?

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#64

Post by contravariant »

ur-whale wrote: post #46

If there is ONE thing that needs to be decentralized RTFN, it is DNS. It's taking time, but the thugs in charge in various countries are slowly coming to realize that the easiest place to apply censorship is DNS because of its antiquated design and pervasiveness. One: you should be able to freely choose or name-to-IP-translation provider. Two: modern DNS should run on top of a trustless blockchain infrastructure. Nam…

To some extent it is decentralized is it not? Other than a small list of who serves which TLD you should be able to find the canonical nameserver for any domain.

It should be more normal for people to have a DNS running locally perhaps.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#65

Post by boredatoms »

ur-whale wrote: post #46

If there is ONE thing that needs to be decentralized RTFN, it is DNS. It's taking time, but the thugs in charge in various countries are slowly coming to realize that the easiest place to apply censorship is DNS because of its antiquated design and pervasiveness. One: you should be able to freely choose or name-to-IP-translation provider. Two: modern DNS should run on top of a trustless blockchain infrastructure. Nam…

You are already free to choose your name-to-ip provider - there are many DNS servers, you can even run your own

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#66

Post by dmix »

amarcheschi wrote: post #39
stalfosknight wrote: post #36

Why must the Europeans be like this? Why do they insist on fucking with a free and open internet instead of addressing the apparently unmet demand that is fueling a black market?

Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions. I know of nobody supporting such draconian measures. However, the government, the football league and the guys taking decisions at agcom (which in the past has been a serious and respected agency for the battle he took with tech companies) are, quite apparently, banding together to make the football league will become reality above anything else

> Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions

Both Spainish and Italian governments created laws for which these companies are going after Cloudflare. Europeans elected them and work in those governments and courts.

Expecting large companies in any country not to have lawyers figure out how to use and abuse this stuff is pretty naive. Heavy regulatory environments are very popular in Europe and just like America they almost always benefit/protect entrenched powers while being sold (and defended online) as necessary to protect the small players and upstarts.

The internet has been warning about the risks of excessive anti piracy laws being anti-open internet for as long as I remember.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#67

Post by awesome_dude »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #49
miki123211 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of Cloudflare is that it's widely available and that your customers can connect to it. Italy could block Cloudflare access to Cloudflare for its citizens, which would make non-italian CF customers who have users in Italy extremely unhappy. Imagine an American SaaS company that uses Cloudflare CDN to distribute their assets and tunnels their traffic through CF for DoS mitigation. That company has paying cust…

CF blocking a whole country like this would be interesting... basically half the internet would stop working, probably a bunch of italian government stuff too, and people would hopefully blame the government, because i'm pretty sure there are almost zero italian voters who wanted this from their representatives. Sadly, companies bow down instead of just risk it once.

> basically

> probably

> bunch

> hopefully

> pretty sure

> almost

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#68

Post by grapesodaaaaa »

int_19h wrote: post #37
perching_aix wrote: post #13

Am I correct in recognizing this as a new low, or is there a prior example for such a demand?

Right there in the article: "This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites."

That’s hilarious to me suggesting that DNS can facilitate privacy.

What about the people who own the copper that’s transporting the piracy? That actually seems like it’s more of a direct link than DNS.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#69

Post by [deleted] »

yimby2001 wrote: post #52
miki123211 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one simple reason. If the US wants some content gone from the internet, they (usually) have enough might to make that happen. Most major tech companies are registered in the US, and can be ordered by a US court to stop providing services to pirates. This notably includes most major DNS registrars, reputable ad networks and major payment processors. There's no point in blocking a website if you can just boot it of…

What piracy has the US government ever stopped? The pirate bay is up all the free movie tv.com sites are up

[deleted]

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#70

Post by wkat4242 »

miohtama wrote: post #32
perching_aix wrote: post #13

Am I correct in recognizing this as a new low, or is there a prior example for such a demand?

A Spanish judge ordered blocking of Telegram for the same reason. https://medium.com/enrique-dans/why-blocking-telegram-in-spa... It was reversed quickly on complaints, though.

Yeah in fact it never even happened. I set up some MTProto proxies for some of the communities I engage in but it was never actually needed.

It was exactly 1 year ago, I know because I ordered some domains for the proxies and I just got the final reminder.

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