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New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

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Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#61

Post by dctoedt »

daedrdev wrote: post #57

IPR is a tool that weakens all patents. Saying it helps trolls at the expense of everyone else (which this article says) is a bad faith argument. Weakening IPR helps all patent holders fight for their rights, including trolls. Considering how the tech industry has bullied its way past numerous rightful patents, this seems like it could be reasonable or might not be. If you think we should have no patents be my guest,…

(Inactive) patent litigator here (been doing other things for some years now): IPRs are way better than jury trials for determining patentability.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#62

Post by jnsie »

dctoedt wrote: post #59
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

See Blue Jeans Cable's classic response to a patent cease-and-desist letter from Monster Cables: The Blue Jeans Cable CEO was a former litigator who pulled no punches in his response. [0] [0] See https://www.oncontracts.com/monster-cables-picked-the-wrong-... (self-cite).

> Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it.

Sumptuous!

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#63

Post by textlapse »

amelius wrote: post #5

We should have notarized LLM models for this. Timestamp your LLMs, put them in a notarized database. Then, if you en up in a patent lawsuit, just fire up the relevant LLM, and ask it in simple terms to reproduce troll's claims.

Patent this idea! now! And timestamp it! in an LLM!

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#64

Post by amelius »

kam wrote: post #11
herniatedeel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what purpose? If it's for prior art, the prior at must have been publicly available, so a private LLM wouldn't work. Perhaps I'm missing your point, though.

I think the idea is that if an LLM trained prior to the patent date can reproduce the invention, then either the idea is obvious or there was prior art in the training set; either way the patent is invalid.

Yes that's the idea, and now I'm wondering why I'm being downvoted. Maybe the patent trolls don't like it.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#65

Post by dkh »

dctoedt wrote: post #59
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

See Blue Jeans Cable's classic response to a patent cease-and-desist letter from Monster Cables: The Blue Jeans Cable CEO was a former litigator who pulled no punches in his response. [0] [0] See https://www.oncontracts.com/monster-cables-picked-the-wrong-... (self-cite).

This man is my hero. What an absolute legend

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#66

Post by dkh »

jnsie wrote: post #62
dctoedt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See Blue Jeans Cable's classic response to a patent cease-and-desist letter from Monster Cables: The Blue Jeans Cable CEO was a former litigator who pulled no punches in his response. [0] [0] See https://www.oncontracts.com/monster-cables-picked-the-wrong-... (self-cite).

> Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it. Sumptuous!

I get an adrenaline rush just reading it

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#67

Post by gist »

karaterobot wrote: post #39
gist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think like so many things the idea of 'patent trolls' has taken on a meaning whereby anyone who has a patent but no operating actual company (as you are describing LLC with 5 members and a lawyer) everyone automatically thinks 'sham'. On the surface by stories related that certainly appears to be the case. However we don't have any data (only anecdotes) on how many patents are pursued this way that are actually val…

It's not really a question of whether the patent troll has a legitimate patent or not—in the sense of having clear ownership over the IP, that is. They generally do. We consider someone a patent troll when they don't make use of the patent themselves, except to extract money from other people, typically through threats of legal action. They're exploiting the fear of being sued for a lot of money in order to get a com…

> when they don't make use of the patent themselves, except to extract money from other people, typically through threats of legal action.

If someone has (what you have called) 'a legitimate patent' then they have the right (whether they use the patent or not) to then pursue legal action to either stop use of the patent or to settle for money damages.

What companies don't like is someone coming along with the ability to engage legal help that they wouldn't be able to do with out the attorneys that are handling this (to gain a payoff for themselves which well attorneys do for other things).

However while this seems different than similar things that happen (with actual companies with legal resources) it's really just the same thing just by different parties.

If let's say General Electric has a patent on something and you use that patent GE can come after you (and probably will). Same as with large companies defending their IP (trademarks).

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#68

Post by lofaszvanitt »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #58
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come you can sue others and the court doesn't check whether you have the funds if you lose? I mean if you don't have funds allocated away in case you lose, then why start the proceedings?

Because it's generally considered bad policy to make it illegal for poor people to sue.

Yeah, that's trivial. But law has so many edge cases and seemingly it always favor either powerful or wealthy individuals.

Plus, poor people cannot afford the litigation costs...

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#69

Post by cryptonector »

daedrdev wrote: post #57

IPR is a tool that weakens all patents. Saying it helps trolls at the expense of everyone else (which this article says) is a bad faith argument. Weakening IPR helps all patent holders fight for their rights, including trolls. Considering how the tech industry has bullied its way past numerous rightful patents, this seems like it could be reasonable or might not be. If you think we should have no patents be my guest,…

The USPTO is limiting IPR, not the other way around.
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