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Moving away from US cloud services

martijnhols.nl

61–70 of 383 posts

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#61
post #29

The biggest elephants in the room are cloud providers, but I didn't find an easy alternative yet (hetzner, ovhcloud). ATM, the idea to the business is sold, that data resides somewhere near by in a datacenter, EU proximity. However, the EU businesses are realising that, well, whole region is at a mercy of one person.

How about Scaleway?

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#62
Hey so I’m pretty sure you can host your own business mail for free these days without a static IP. This is basically how it would go:

Cloudflare Tunnel installed on your box (free)

Cloudflare Email Worker connected to your domain which writes emails to a KV store (generous free tiers)

Cloudflare Worker that downloads the emails from the KV store and uses Worker TCP sockets to send it to your mail server over the tunnel via a TCP port ie 25000 (CF blocks 25)

For sending mail in blue, local mail server uses smtp2go or Azure Communication Services.

I’ve pretty much convinced that a cheap Synology rack is the best way to do this because it replaces Azure ID (Synology SSO) and Exchange (Synology Mail) which self hosted non-SaaS in the one appliance, it gets security updates, and it has a easy web interface for setting everything up.

Haven’t managed to write the Cloudflare worker code yet, but found this guys repo and he’s done pretty much all the heavy lifting: https://github.com/Sh4yy/cloudflare-email

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#63
post #37

[flagged]

> The only thing that has changed since the latest elections in the US is that there is a government that more closely defends the interests of the US.

This is a huge understatement of the current political situation in the US, where old allies are suddenly being treated extremely unfriendly and where stability is no longer something you can count on given how quickly the situation has deteriorated since Trump took office. While it is allegedly being done to "more closely defend the interests of the US" the ends may not justify the means.

We don't have an issue with the approach on a fundamental level here in the EU, but we would have liked this move to have been made in a more progressive fashion, as it makes the US look like a very unpredictable commercial & military partner.

> Getting rid of good relationships with the US will weaken European tech (and not just tech) even more.

Forcing EU to improve their own tech and military development is something that is being done in response to the US' lack of predictability, nobody's being "fooled" by talking heads, people just generally love the feeling of safety and predictability.

I'd like to understand why you're assuming this will weaken European tech though - what is this based on specifically? We can develop our own versions of anything you make in the US, we have the engineers and the US is no longer really leading even in AI initiatives thanks to the Chinese open sourcing their AI tech.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#65

Privacy rights in the EU are being eroded as we speak. Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. Also, sorry, but the idea that EU countries are in any position to build a serious hyperscaler is pure fiction. Growth, funding, risk, innovation - those are alien concepts to European entrepreneurs.

counterpoint: not everyone needs a hyperscaler. Especially with open source like Kubernetes out there. Of course the more experience companies have managing it, better the service becomes. But I don't see why it can't happen within EU.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#66
post #18

I moved from GitHub to self-hosted gitolite. I use a (standard) Makefile in each repo, which my deploy job runs (make test, make build, etc). I use githooks to do various automation. It's really not that much different to GH Actions, and not more work. But it's much faster, and easier to work with. If you're working in a team, then PRs are hard to replace.

what advantage does gitlolite over gitea? If i wanted to replace GitHub my intuition would be to replace it with gitea. It seems to have similar interface, pull requests, workers etc to gh.

Gitolite is a bare bones git server. Gitea is a forge. They’re not remotely in the same class of software. Gitolite doesn’t even have a web view for the repos, you need a separate package like cgit for that; never mind project management features.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#67
post #33
post #29

The biggest elephants in the room are cloud providers, but I didn't find an easy alternative yet (hetzner, ovhcloud). ATM, the idea to the business is sold, that data resides somewhere near by in a datacenter, EU proximity. However, the EU businesses are realising that, well, whole region is at a mercy of one person.

OVH and Hetzner are excellent companies. I doubt there would be any problem with them in the future.

Other notable EU cloud providers are also STACKIT, IONOS, Cloud Ferro and Exoscale

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#68
post #29

The biggest elephants in the room are cloud providers, but I didn't find an easy alternative yet (hetzner, ovhcloud). ATM, the idea to the business is sold, that data resides somewhere near by in a datacenter, EU proximity. However, the EU businesses are realising that, well, whole region is at a mercy of one person.

I think this is less of an issue than people actually think - if it gets to the point where this becomes a real problem, individual EU countries can force the datacenter owners like Google/MS to change ownership structure for these datacenters to EU-based subsidiaries or completely new companies if they want to continue to operate.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OVH and Hetzner are excellent companies. I doubt there would be any problem with them in the future.

Both companies are excellent, and I'd absolutely trust them with my business, but neither can replace something like AWS. The friends I have at companies who are actively using AWS are all relying on a fairly large number of AWS only services. Either they'd need to stand up their own replacements and host those services on VMs, or in some cases rewrite parts of their stack. E.g. if you're using AWS Cognito then you'r…

IMHO Aws is designed for totally embracing their philosophy and language. You don't understand two Aws Devs talking to each other. Even organizations are internally structured for Aws operations. This create something even stronger than a dependency.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#70
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OVH and Hetzner are excellent companies. I doubt there would be any problem with them in the future.

Both companies are excellent, and I'd absolutely trust them with my business, but neither can replace something like AWS. The friends I have at companies who are actively using AWS are all relying on a fairly large number of AWS only services. Either they'd need to stand up their own replacements and host those services on VMs, or in some cases rewrite parts of their stack. E.g. if you're using AWS Cognito then you'r…

Exactly! You can get a bare minimum, like a virtual machine (EC2) or storage (S3), which probably enough for small and medium enterprises (SME). However, if we move beyond, I'm not sure as I don't have experience with them. Now, if I'm building a prototype, I want something quick and just a lack of Cognito is a deal breaker.
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