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Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#61

Post by impossiblefork »

crooked-v wrote: post #45
impossiblefork wrote: post #30

It really isn't smart to do this kind of thing. Once an organization actually attacks you, it's very easy to decide that any legitimacy they view themselves as having is irrelevant and to come back next Monday with mortars and machine guns.

Estimates are that something like 300,000+ people were out actively protesting just in Belgrade... in a country of 6.6 million people.

Yes, but polarization is a possibility. You can't know you're the majority, so until violence is used against you, you don't necessarily have a reason to turn the thing into a civil war.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#63

Post by qingcharles »

casenmgreen wrote: post #20

Serbia is one of the Russian-controlled Governments, along with Hungary and Georgia; these are the countries where we expect to see such attacks made to suppress protest. (USA is not controlled, any more than say China is controlled, but is an authoritarian regime (so no real elections), so there's a shared world view, and here also I would expect to see much the same.)

I don't think it's totally clear-cut that the USA isn't currently Russian-controlled, at least in terms of some of the higher offices.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#64

Post by CaffeineLD50 »

cced wrote: post #39
CaffeineLD50 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You’re missing the point. You can’t call yourself a democracy and prevent people from peacefully protesting. Either you allow people the right to demonstrate in peace to show those in power the scale with which a certain cause moves people or people skip protesting altogether.

Every dictatorship claims to be a democracy, and your attempt to call BS on it will go nowhere.

What point am I missing?

Protest is a prelude to violence (or regime change) as much as an alternative.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#65

Post by seabass-labrax »

impossiblefork wrote: post #36
hettygreen wrote: post #8

Is there any counter measure for this? Hardcore hearing protection? Noise cancelling headphones? Handheld sound insulation "shield"?

Once there's violence targeting you, the solution is to bring real weapons and resolve it using ordinary military tactics, that is, you kill the operator.

"Attack is the best form of defence" is a well-grounded doctrine, but it's not mutually exclusive with protecting yourself. Armies use armoured vehicles even though armour-piercing shells exist, for example.

It's also not always necessary; actively using force against the authorities would essentially be the start of a civil war, and personally I don't think starting a civil war is more likely to result in change than peaceful protest. For instance, Serbia is to some extent reliant on the EU, and has expressed an interest in joining. That should force the current government to reconsider and crack down on corruption much better than an attempted coup would.

Full disclosure: I have never been to Serbia and this is just my personal feeling. But for expressly peaceful protests to seamlessly turn into a full-blown revolution, and a successful one at that, seems incredibly unlikely to me.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#66

Post by casenmgreen »

alephnerd wrote: post #53
casenmgreen wrote: post #20

Serbia is one of the Russian-controlled Governments, along with Hungary and Georgia; these are the countries where we expect to see such attacks made to suppress protest. (USA is not controlled, any more than say China is controlled, but is an authoritarian regime (so no real elections), so there's a shared world view, and here also I would expect to see much the same.)

> Serbia is one of the Russian-controlled Governments Serbia is a major weapons supplier for Ukraine [0][1][2] and has backed Ukraine's stance on Crimea as it has implications for Serbia's stance on Kosovo. Vucic only cares about Vucic, and will work with any country (Germany [3], Russia, China [4], America [5], Turkiye [6], UAE [7], etc) to continue to hold power and balance alternatives. By becoming close with ever…

I am corrected.

Thank you, and very much; I had thought I knew where Serbia was in things, but I was mistaken. I don't want to be mistaken, especially not now, where the situation is so serious. It's an excellent post, and I'm very grateful to you for the time you spent pulling all the links together.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#67

Post by CaffeineLD50 »

mdhb wrote: post #34
CaffeineLD50 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What on earth is wrong with you?

I would prefer protesters not be killed by oppressive governments. I guess you prefer tanks and guns.

Feel free to make an argument.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#68

Post by grujicd »

casenmgreen wrote: post #20

Serbia is one of the Russian-controlled Governments, along with Hungary and Georgia; these are the countries where we expect to see such attacks made to suppress protest. (USA is not controlled, any more than say China is controlled, but is an authoritarian regime (so no real elections), so there's a shared world view, and here also I would expect to see much the same.)

It's incorrect that Serbia has Russian-controlled government. Why would you say that? We're quite capable of having our own independent dictator, thank you. If anything, Vučić was widely supported by EU. One of our problems is that there's almost no pressure on government from any external side - not from US, not from EU, not from Russia, not from China. Opposition is entirely internal.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#69

Post by CaffeineLD50 »

perching_aix wrote: post #41
CaffeineLD50 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, I don't think that's what they were implying.

And what do you think they were implying ? A world of fairies and unicorns where protests are tolerated and bad guys just retire to Dubai ?

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#70

Post by impossiblefork »

captainkrtek wrote: post #40
impossiblefork wrote: post #30

It really isn't smart to do this kind of thing. Once an organization actually attacks you, it's very easy to decide that any legitimacy they view themselves as having is irrelevant and to come back next Monday with mortars and machine guns.

Reminds me of the escalation seen in the Ukrainian Maidan, went from some heavy handed policing to non-lethal rounds (eg: teargas / beanbags) to BBs to snipers and live firing on crowds.

Yes, although that was exceptionally irrational, to the point where I don't really feel I understand the events.
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