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How I got 100% off my train travel

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Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#61

Post by tdeck »

dylan604 wrote: post #32
sebtron wrote: post #27

> Avanti West Coast offers customers: > 15 minutes — 25% off > 30 minutes — 50% off > 1 hour + — 100% off To me they look like very generous refund policies. I checked Italy's Trenitalia and what they offer is[1]: > 30-119 minutes: 25% > 120+ minutes: 50% I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time". [1] https://www.trenitalia.com/it/informazioni/indennizzo_per_ri...

> I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time". sounds about right for the stereotype. it's the 'murikans that are the ones so uptight about time

FWIW Amtrak's policy is 15 minutes, but they're not known for being on time:

https://www.amtrak.com/on-time-performance

It's interesting how much effort here is dedicated to explaining that it's the freight rail companies' fault.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#62

Post by colechristensen »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #22
colechristensen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas taxes and toll revenue account for about 1/3 of road infrastructure spend these days. This is significantly less than years past as the fixed gas tax hasn't kept up with inflation or adjusted upwards enough to match efficiency gains.

I was careful to say "city road & street" because those aren't generally subsidized by gas taxes, usually only inter-city roads and highways are.

And still, you're incorrect.

My state gathers money for a highway fund from gas taxes, vehicle registrations, vehicle sales taxes, etc. They have a program called "Municipal State Aid Street" where they reallocate some highway funds for city and rural streets. There's even a map. [1] I'm quite sure that everywhere has some similar program.

There's this public transit chauvinist myth that roads are, "100% subsidized" as you say, and it's wrong. Stop making things up or just accepting vague collective wisdom. Roads are paid for in significant portions by road users. Not 100% because that would be an undue burden on the poor.

Trains, despite being crazy expensive and heavily subsidized, are more expensive to use than owning a car for a lot of people or they are enormous money sinks that are paid by non-users. They can be incredibly useful and a worthwhile investment, but I've definitely run the numbers in the past and found the train to be more expensive and much more unpleasant than driving (for me it was a Caltrain+BART commute).

1. https://mndot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?i...

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#63

Post by underyx »

bonobocop wrote: post #51
monkey_monkey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's fraudulent about this?

I don’t think it’s fraud on the DR side if you actually take the trains and intend to travel. If you didn’t actually intend to travel, then claiming DR is fraud.

What’s fraudulent about traveling without intending to travel?

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#64

Post by Nextgrid »

bonobocop wrote: post #51
monkey_monkey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's fraudulent about this?

I don’t think it’s fraud on the DR side if you actually take the trains and intend to travel. If you didn’t actually intend to travel, then claiming DR is fraud.

I wonder how this works if you intend to travel should the train be on time, but become aware of the delay (or likelihood of it) and change your plans - what counts as proof of intent?

It would be better if the law was changed so that any transport company selling a ticket is forced to refund if they couldn't fulfil their obligation, regardless of whether the ticket was used or intended to be used. Can't provide the service? Then don't sell it!

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#65

Post by bonobocop »

underyx wrote: post #63
bonobocop wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s fraud on the DR side if you actually take the trains and intend to travel. If you didn’t actually intend to travel, then claiming DR is fraud.

What’s fraudulent about traveling without intending to travel?

Claiming delay compensation if you don’t have intent to travel is the fraud part.

Easiest example is if you have a season ticket, but you have the day off. You weren’t going to take the train to work that day, so no intent to travel. If you claim DR, then that’s fraud for the compensation.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#66

Post by bonobocop »

Nextgrid wrote: post #64
bonobocop wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s fraud on the DR side if you actually take the trains and intend to travel. If you didn’t actually intend to travel, then claiming DR is fraud.

I wonder how this works if you intend to travel should the train be on time, but become aware of the delay (or likelihood of it) and change your plans - what counts as proof of intent? It would be better if the law was changed so that any transport company selling a ticket is forced to refund if they couldn't fulfil their obligation, regardless of whether the ticket was used or intended to be used. Can't provide the…

If you choose not to travel, then you are eligible for a refund, rather than Delay Repay: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/help-and-assistance/compensat...

There’s differences in consumer rights effectively between a refund and compensation (like DR)

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#67

Post by underyx »

bonobocop wrote: post #65
underyx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s fraudulent about traveling without intending to travel?

Claiming delay compensation if you don’t have intent to travel is the fraud part. Easiest example is if you have a season ticket, but you have the day off. You weren’t going to take the train to work that day, so no intent to travel. If you claim DR, then that’s fraud for the compensation.

But you end up hundreds of miles away from home, who could possibly argue that you moved halfway across the country without intent?

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#68

Post by spxcxlxxs »

controlledchaos wrote: post #11
sarreph wrote: post #8

The UK train system is a dire, expensive mess. Attempting to avoid getting directly political here, but I strongly believe it’s one of the lowest hanging fruit a political party could act on to curry favour with the electorate. Would be amazing to see this productised à la the way split ticketing works.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Japan. Wait till you try the trains there!

They're so punctual that delays issue a certificate for employees to present to employers*

* Source: random article

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#69

Post by switch007 »

monkey_monkey wrote: post #47
switch007 wrote: post #39

I'd heavily caution people against this. The railway operators are both litigious and invested in fraud detection technology. And they love going on fishing exercises Consistent 100% delay repay will absolutely get flagged

What's fraudulent about this?

I didn't claim it was fraudulent, as IANAL (but I probably agree that it isn't). I should have put "fraud" in quotes as they are not too strict when claiming that. "fraud"/"abuse"/"irregularity" detection systems

It doesn't have to meet a legal definition of fraud for them to be able to shake you down either. They do plenty of fishing exercises and allegations without much of a strong case, hoping you'll pay up.

The government is very very hands off when it comes to the railway - law unto their own (except for the operators owned by the government - no escaping blame there!).

A lot of railway legislation offences are strict liability offences - ie there is no excuse and no proof of intent required. It is from there comes a lot of their bullying behaviour and a belief of what they say goes.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#70

Post by bombcar »

toast0 wrote: post #33
bombcar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually can, but the hassle is expensive. You have to coordinate it with the railroad and the controller and you have to provide a locomotive and an engineer and on and on and on, but you can do it.

For heavy rail, yes. For light rail, that is more likely to have been built with local funds, is this actually a thing --- I'm sure if you work with the film commission, but I would be surprised if any light rail systems have a plan for private vehicles. Amtrak will pull your private rail car in the right conditions, too https://www.amtrak.com/privately-owned-rail-cars

All light rails either operate like heavy rail (controlled from a central control area, receive clearances and obey rail signals) or they are just busses on tracks and operate by the rules of the road. Some are both.

The second are easy, and you just need permission in general. The first you need communication with the central office.

This is all done for maintenance vehicles for the tracks, which are often contractors.

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