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Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#61

Post by SkiFire13 »

tempodox wrote: post #32
eviks wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can walk and chew gum? Also, how much complexity do you think is needed to fix this by the webpage?

It would be up to the browser to render HTML sensibly. Use a browser that can.

There is a specification that says how it should be rendered. I definitely don't want every browser to decide how to render my webpage, that would just make development so much harder and complex.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#62

Post by kragen »

cedilla wrote: post #57
susam wrote: post #38

It is unfortunate that modern web development has led to websites so complex that they either break entirely or look terrible in text-based browsers like Lynx. Take Mastodon, for example: $ lynx https://mastodon.social/ […] To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript. Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your platform. The C2 Wiki does not load either: $ lynx https://wiki.c2.co…

> The number of text-based web users may be shrinking I wouldn't be surprised if it's growing in absolute numbers, in relative numbers it stays at essentially 0% where it always was.

When I started using the WWW in 01992 the majority of Web users were probably using text-based browsers, and specifically Lynx, because that was what the University of Kansas was using for its campuswide information service (CWIS). Mosaic didn't exist yet, and most people accessing the internet were using either dumb terminals like I was (typically in my case a VT-100 or CIT-101 clone of it) or dialup terminal emulators like Procomm+.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#63

Post by kaiwen1 »

I still used Lynx as my default browser while working on ships until 2020. Satellite internet connections at sea were slow and very expensive which made Lynx a good choice. But it turned out that the text-based, distraction-free browsing could be a better experience than the same site in a modern browser. And a few sites still serve text versions, like text.npr.org. I liked Lynx enough that I would still use it back on land until the habit faded.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#64

Post by kragen »

Paianni wrote: post #22
febeling wrote: post #10

I miss websites that look like lynx's: https://lynx.browser.org/

That landing page seems unmaintained, I think this is the main home page: https://lynx.invisible-island.net/

This says:

> Access Denied - Sucuri Website Firewall

...

> Block reason: Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator.

For that reason I don't think it's a good page to recommend.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#66

Post by monsieurbanana »

ta1243 wrote: post #53
susam wrote: post #38

It is unfortunate that modern web development has led to websites so complex that they either break entirely or look terrible in text-based browsers like Lynx. Take Mastodon, for example: $ lynx https://mastodon.social/ […] To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript. Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your platform. The C2 Wiki does not load either: $ lynx https://wiki.c2.co…

And of course https://news.ycombinator.com/ Which works perfectly, including navigation (next/prev/parent). The perfect way to use javascript to enhance a site (collapsing threads etc) but not require it. HN is hosted on a single machine in a colo somewhere (with a backup elsewhere), yet has far more value than the majority of sites 100 times as complex.

Because HN value is the value of the comments, and those are a scarce resource. Making a great website (for whatever is your definition of great) doesn't guarantee that it will become valuable.

All this to say, HN shouldn't an example to blindly follow.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#67

Post by ForTheKidz »

crazygringo wrote: post #51
susam wrote: post #38

It is unfortunate that modern web development has led to websites so complex that they either break entirely or look terrible in text-based browsers like Lynx. Take Mastodon, for example: $ lynx https://mastodon.social/ […] To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript. Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your platform. The C2 Wiki does not load either: $ lynx https://wiki.c2.co…

Is it really so bad? Unlike computer interfaces, the web was never text-first. It was graphical from the start. The first browser was in a GUI, not a terminal. Sites have been hobbled/broken on Lynx since the very beginning. It's neat and can be convenient to have a browser that works in your terminal for simple stuff, but the web was never designed for that. It's natural and to be expected that many sites will break…

> It's natural and to be expected that many sites will break.

There is nothing "natural" about software development at all. It was an active choice to hobble the internet as a browser to sell ads via interactive apps.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#68

Post by prepend »

crazygringo wrote: post #51
susam wrote: post #38

It is unfortunate that modern web development has led to websites so complex that they either break entirely or look terrible in text-based browsers like Lynx. Take Mastodon, for example: $ lynx https://mastodon.social/ […] To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript. Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your platform. The C2 Wiki does not load either: $ lynx https://wiki.c2.co…

Is it really so bad? Unlike computer interfaces, the web was never text-first. It was graphical from the start. The first browser was in a GUI, not a terminal. Sites have been hobbled/broken on Lynx since the very beginning. It's neat and can be convenient to have a browser that works in your terminal for simple stuff, but the web was never designed for that. It's natural and to be expected that many sites will break…

Wasn’t lynx before other graphical browsers? I remember first using the web through a vax terminal and lynx. You could download images but had to launch a viewer.

Re: Lynx is the oldest web browser still being maintained

#70

Post by scratcheee »

crazygringo wrote: post #51
susam wrote: post #38

It is unfortunate that modern web development has led to websites so complex that they either break entirely or look terrible in text-based browsers like Lynx. Take Mastodon, for example: $ lynx https://mastodon.social/ […] To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript. Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your platform. The C2 Wiki does not load either: $ lynx https://wiki.c2.co…

Is it really so bad? Unlike computer interfaces, the web was never text-first. It was graphical from the start. The first browser was in a GUI, not a terminal. Sites have been hobbled/broken on Lynx since the very beginning. It's neat and can be convenient to have a browser that works in your terminal for simple stuff, but the web was never designed for that. It's natural and to be expected that many sites will break…

Given the web’s much wider remit than pdf, it has support for accessibility tools and much better non-visual handling than pdf, so the comparison isn’t entirely fair I think. If a website doesn’t handle lynx well, there’s a good chance it doesn’t handle accessibility well either.
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