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DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

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Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#61

Post by black3r »

iAMkenough wrote: post #28
bobajeff wrote: post #10

I think Google should just be split up into baby Google's that each have to cooperate with each other. Like we did with Bell. Also we should do the same thing to Microsoft, Amazon and Facebook. In fact I think we should do it again to AT&T and also Comcast. This should probably be done every so often as maintenance.

Don't forget the other industries suffering from the same problem: Walmart, UnitedHealth Group, Berkshiere Hathaway, ExxonMobil, JPMorgan Chase, etc.

The problem with Google, Meta, Amazon, et. al. is that they have a steady stream of income from their main business, and use it to enter new markets with loss leader schemes obviously designed to destroy their pre-existing competition...

I'm not from the US, but it seems to me like the companies you mention stay in their respective market and don't try to destroy competition in other markets, like Walmart is a supermarket chain, UnitedHealth is just health insurance, Exxon just deals with gas, JPMorgan Chase is just a bank, etc...,

meanwhile Google operated YouTube, Chrome, Gmail and other services at significant losses for years up until the point where they basically have monopoly in those areas because the competition couldn't keep up with Google's free products, and now when the competition is destroyed, they are destroying these free services with increased pricing or ads, neither of which were there while they still had competition in those spheres...

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#62

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

seanhunter wrote: post #13

Feel like splitting ad sales from search is the one meaningful structural change they could insist upon that would actually make a difference to Google's monopoly position. Anything like this is really more window-dressing than anything.

And then have ad companies bid on spots instead of companies? That just sounds like adding a middleman (inefficency) to the system. Like making me go to a car dealer instead of just adding to cart like anything else.

The other alternative would be paying for search, in which case everyone would just leave for another search engine the next day.

Which is honestly why I have so much calling google search a monopoly. The switching cost is comically cheap and easy. You could cut out Google search within the next 5 minutes from the rest of your life.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#63

Post by layer8 »

seanhunter wrote: post #13

Feel like splitting ad sales from search is the one meaningful structural change they could insist upon that would actually make a difference to Google's monopoly position. Anything like this is really more window-dressing than anything.

Android is pretty important as well, with its forced Google integration.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#64

Post by alt227 »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #53
lillecarl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but it's also not great when Amazon can undercut their way into every market because AWS is a crazy cash cow, which hurt other US companies. Do you really need Amazon to be a "second government" who can decide what "you" buy, see and to some degree think. It "works" in China where the government just stomps their feet if companies misbehave too much and everyone complies instantly or get replaced. Edit: s/Amazon…

Some companies / services are just not viable as a standalone company, but still provide immense value to customers. What will end up happening is not that Amazon will have to compete with others on video game streaming for example, what will happen is that video game streaming will disappear because not viable. Browsers won't suddenly flourish when Google cannot finance browsers anymore, they'll just turn to shit. P…

> Browsers won't suddenly flourish when Google cannot finance browsers anymore, they'll just turn to shit.

Maybe what will happen is there will be a slowdown of new browser standards as Google wont have the muscle to push things through in the browser space anymore. This would be a great thing, as it would stop the moving target of web standards and would allow other browsers to catch up.

It would also stop google being able to do things like force Manifest V2 out of Chromium just because it serves their own purpose.

I'd like to see this outcome.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#65

Post by _dark_matter_ »

jcranmer wrote: post #5

IMHO, the real issue with Google isn't the control of the web browser, but the complete vertical integration of the ad space. Divest Google of its position as the ad broker (i.e., unwind its acquisition of DoubleClick), and prohibit any sort of privileged data flow from Google to ex-Google Ads, and you'd probably have a more viable solution than the poking DoJ is trying to do right now.

Confusingly, this is the contents of a second and separate antitrust suit against Google: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_...

This first one is about dominant market position by paying for placement on all surfaces (iPhone, Firefox, etc.) plus chrome. So splitting off chrome and android make sense in the context of the suit.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#66

Post by transcriptase »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #57
regularjack wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think monopolies should exist?

Instead of smashing up successful businesses, you should tax them, and use the tax revenue to improve deficiencies in the market. If the government thinks there should be more browsers, (or mobile os's) they should tax the existing ones and pay folks to improve the open source alternatives. You _should_ outlaw behavior that creates monopolies, like predatory pricing etc

Canada tries this.

The result is higher prices for consumers and taxpayer money flowing into zombie companies that just happen be in regions where the party in power needs votes.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#68

Post by coliveira »

jjmarr wrote: post #47
bsimpson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how this worldview coexists with countries like Russia and China. If the feds kneecap US companies, it's not going to make the next generation of US companies stronger, just cede influence to worse jurisdictions.

Both of those countries dislike powerful, large corporations because they are a base of power that could compete with the state or party. The Wagner Group comes to mind. But China also did a huge crackdown affecting companies like Alibaba and Tencent. There's no reason why there can't be international co-operation on this subject.

> Both of those countries dislike powerful, large corporations because they are a base of power that could compete with the state or party.

These countries are not different from any other in the world. The US also has anti-monopoly laws exactly for this reason: nobody wants a corporation that can compete with the government, be it democratic or not.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#69

Post by ndriscoll »

bsimpson wrote: post #20
bobajeff wrote: post #10

I think Google should just be split up into baby Google's that each have to cooperate with each other. Like we did with Bell. Also we should do the same thing to Microsoft, Amazon and Facebook. In fact I think we should do it again to AT&T and also Comcast. This should probably be done every so often as maintenance.

I don't understand how this worldview coexists with countries like Russia and China. If the feds kneecap US companies, it's not going to make the next generation of US companies stronger, just cede influence to worse jurisdictions.

I'm happy to let China and Russia be the global leaders in panopticons and mass propaganda for their citizens. Google and Meta would be no great loss for Americans.

Re: DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next

#70

Post by quasarsunnix »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #59

Honestly I don't care if Google gets broken up, so long as Apple is first. People complain about whataboutism, but the Apple versus almost any other 'monopoly' is insane. You can switch browsers within the next 30s, you can't install an app from a third party vendor ever on iOS. [1] [1] Yes I know you can pay $100 a year, and then compile your own/open source apps weekly and move them to your device. No this is not a…

I think the issue is horizontal vs. vertical monopolies. Apple do have a monopoly, but it's vertically integrated one. That's arguably their unique selling point; tightly integrated products without a great deal of customization.

Google on the other hand have a monolithic market share in a number of key markets. There's really no competition to them in search or video for instance, whereby they command extremely dominant market share.

Apple on the other hand do not dominate any markets, they just have a locked down product. Pretty similar to luxury cars, Nintendo, and other companies that think their customers value the integration over an open ecosystem.

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