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Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

sciencedirect.com

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Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#61

Post by Guzba »

colingauvin wrote: post #54
Guzba wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The orthodox reason for why people are overweight is calories in, calories out. Does it matter if those calories are a prepackaged cake or candy? In the end it is just calories. Would gratuitously large steaks in the meat section and huge rotisserie turkeys instead of chicken at Costco produce the same result? It seems strange to pick on certain types of foods unless believe those foods are the cause of obesity inste…

This is an oversimplification. >Does it matter if those calories are a prepackaged cake or candy? In the end it is just calories. In the end it's a complex, poorly understood network of hormones and brain chemistry. Human action is mostly downstream of that.

I agree, however for some reason calories in calories out is generally unquestioned among people I know personally.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#62

Post by atombender »

sandworm101 wrote: post #24
tulio_ribeiro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweeteners are processed food. Timeline shows more processed food hitting the market, period. Obesity rises. Coincidence? Doubt it. It's not just the sweetener itself. It's the whole shift. More processed crap in everything, sweeteners included. Cheaper, easier, engineered to be addictive. That's the real change that lines up with the weight gain. Focusing just on sweeteners is missing the point. They're just one pie…

"Processed food" is a term without meaning. Amost all food is processed. Yogert is processed. Bread is processed. Steak is processed. Even raw fruit is arguably processed as it is picked before being ripe to eat and then subject to an optimized ripening process (google the science behind banana shipping). All foods are either cooked or mechanically/chemically processed prior to consumption. We are aguably unable to s…

"Ultraprocessed" is arguably the more important term. While also formally defined, a rule of thumb is that if the average person can't make it in their kitchen, it's ultraprocessed. These are chemicals chemicals that are used to emulsify or stabilize ingredients, preservatives, and chemicals used to improve mouthfeel and texture: like lecithin, polysorbate, sodium benzoate, maltodextrin, partially hydrogenated oils, sodium phosphates, etc. — there are tons of them. Some of them have been implicated in causing gut inflammation.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#63

Post by Guzba »

ein0p wrote: post #57
Guzba wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The orthodox reason for why people are overweight is calories in, calories out. Does it matter if those calories are a prepackaged cake or candy? In the end it is just calories. Would gratuitously large steaks in the meat section and huge rotisserie turkeys instead of chicken at Costco produce the same result? It seems strange to pick on certain types of foods unless believe those foods are the cause of obesity inste…

It is, of course, not as easy as calories in / calories out, although the "Twinkies experiment" proved that you can in fact lose weight via caloric restriction alone. For any kind of "normal" diet insulin plays a massive role in obesity. And that bag of candy will absolutely send it to the stratosphere, especially if you consume sweets frequently. Buy a continuous glucose monitor (it's now available OTC via Stelo), a…

I am aware of this, I am more trying to get those that really believe it is as simple as calories in calories out to break free from that Plato-ey over-simplified explanation.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#64

Post by loeg »

atombender wrote: post #62
sandworm101 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Processed food" is a term without meaning. Amost all food is processed. Yogert is processed. Bread is processed. Steak is processed. Even raw fruit is arguably processed as it is picked before being ripe to eat and then subject to an optimized ripening process (google the science behind banana shipping). All foods are either cooked or mechanically/chemically processed prior to consumption. We are aguably unable to s…

"Ultraprocessed" is arguably the more important term. While also formally defined, a rule of thumb is that if the average person can't make it in their kitchen, it's ultraprocessed. These are chemicals chemicals that are used to emulsify or stabilize ingredients, preservatives, and chemicals used to improve mouthfeel and texture: like lecithin, polysorbate, sodium benzoate, maltodextrin, partially hydrogenated oils,…

"Ultra-processed" is just a retcon'd term circularly defined as any calorie dense, low satiety food you already have reason to believe is unhealthy.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#65

Post by gruez »

roboror wrote: post #58
gruez wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting yourself to sucralose means paying a premium (it's only used in premium brands) and restricting what brands you can get. If you want "coke" specifically, aspartame is your only choice. They don't make sucralose cokes.

The "zero sugar" version has sucralose

No?

https://www.coca-cola.com/us/en/brands/coca-cola/products/ze...

>CARBONATED WATER, CARAMEL COLOR, PHOSPHORIC ACID, ASPARTAME, POTASSIUM BENZOATE (TO PROTECT TASTE), NATURAL FLAVORS, POTASSIUM CITRATE, ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, CAFFEINE, STEVIA EXTRACT.

Not sure how stevia got on there. The zero caffeine version (also on that list) doesn't have it. Nor does Amazon's listing

https://www.amazon.com/Coca-Cola-Zero-Sugar-Fridgepack-Pack/...

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#66

Post by Guzba »

loeg wrote: post #60
Guzba wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With this in mind, is the real cause "calories in, calories out" or "optimized flavor and marketing strategies"?

Potato, potato. CICO is just physics, but "optimized flavor and marketing strategies" has had impact on the "CI" side of the equation.

It seems very different and critically important. Would we have a current obesity epidemic without "optimized flavor and marketing strategies"? Because if we would not, then that is the true cause and of fundamental public health importance.

If we would have an obesity epidemic even without "optimized flavor and marketing strategies", then it is totally irrelevant.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#67

Post by abtinf »

n8henrie wrote: post #53
pupppet wrote: post #13

How is there not a slam dunk answer to whether this 50+ year old incredibly popular ingredient is ok for us or not?

Have you read the abstract? I'm a physician with a BS in human nutrition, and at first glance I find it hard to consider anything about that abstract a "slam dunk" for mice and monkeys, far less for humans. I'm very open to human data that aspartame is bad for humans in reasonable amounts, if you have any, but I haven't seen it. I'm looking to avoid erythritol these days though.

I think you misread the comment you are replying to. They are not saying that the abstract is a slam dunk.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#68

Post by alabastervlog »

Guzba wrote: post #52
alabastervlog wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food got way, way cheaper, including and especially convenient (ready to eat) food. Plus a race between companies selling that food to optimize flavor and marketing strategies for maximum sales, which, at some point, had to start meaning “more eating”, not “more eating this instead of something else” otherwise line could not go up.

With this in mind, is the real cause "calories in, calories out" or "optimized flavor and marketing strategies"?

The reason a person gains weight is CICO.

The reason a population gains weight is way more complicated and probably best short-handed as “social”. Moving to America typically makes people gain weight. Leaving it leads to weight loss. If you’re trying to fix an overweight population, you need to look at lots and lots of things and, demonstrably (as in: the science is pretty clear), telling people to simply eat less and even very expensive high-touch interventions aimed at diet correction don’t work. Wrong tree to bark up, your solution lies elsewhere—or, probably, several elsewheres.

(But drugs might work!)

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#69

Post by atombender »

loeg wrote: post #64
atombender wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ultraprocessed" is arguably the more important term. While also formally defined, a rule of thumb is that if the average person can't make it in their kitchen, it's ultraprocessed. These are chemicals chemicals that are used to emulsify or stabilize ingredients, preservatives, and chemicals used to improve mouthfeel and texture: like lecithin, polysorbate, sodium benzoate, maltodextrin, partially hydrogenated oils,…

"Ultra-processed" is just a retcon'd term circularly defined as any calorie dense, low satiety food you already have reason to believe is unhealthy.

Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification.

Re: Aspartame aggravates atherosclerosis through insulin-triggered inflammation

#70

Post by homebrewer »

denkmoon wrote: post #11
Guzba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just begs the next "why". Why are people eating more now? Such a significant behavior change across a large population is not well explained by "we just did". I'm not sure fast food consumption or huge portion sizes is a great explanation. If fast food is the problem, why does that matter if it just comes down to calories? As for larger portion sizes, would even larger portions make us continue eating? Would tin…

The proportion of households with a person with time and energy to prepare a healthy home cooked meal has diminished. We have sacrificed domestic life on the altar of profit.

It really doesn't have to take more than 10-15 minutes per day in total, you just have to be aware of what you're doing. I know several examples — including myself — who eat healthy food on a budget and spend very little time doing it. We had our problems with American-style food when it appeared and became popular (I had a BMI of 30.5 for several years and blamed everything but myself), but quickly self corrected before real damage was done.
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