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America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

economist.com

61–70 of 85 posts

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#61

The goal is to destabilize and crater the economy then have the rich scoop it up for cheap right? With the goal of moving closer and closer to a pure rentier economy?

I think people are a _little_ too eager to jump to "there must be a diabolical master plan". It's _Trump_; it's entirely possible that it's just vibes-based. "Tariffs are good because when I say tariffs the rubes cheer loudly at my rallies" sort of thing.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#62
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well rich people already own most assets. Why would they want their holdings to lose value? Market crashes hurt HNWI's the most, as they have the most exposure. I am not sure if you feel the second point follows on from the first or stands on its own? I will respond to it as a separate issue and I take it to mean the economy as a whole and not just residences. That being said I agree it is the goal of companies to mo…

Market crash won't hurt the super wealthy. Oh no! My assets went to 60m down from 100m! Day to day spending pressure is what tanks. Economy depends on money flow. Most of that flow is necessities (shelter, food)

> Market crash won't hurt the super wealthy. Oh no! My assets went to 60m down from 100m!

This is not necessarily the case, due to leverage. For some, it can be "oh, no, my assets went to -200M down from 100M". In particular, it's somewhat common for rich people to fund their lifestyles, and sometimes fund business ventures (this is really playing with fire, but it happens) by borrowing against the stuff they own, which is usually mostly equity. In a really big crash, this can unwind rather messily, as some overstretched super-rich discovered in the previous financial crisis.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#63
post #16

I am european, and I don't really know if it's really a bad thing for europe. I would say it's bad to lose an ally like the US, especially for defense, but what about trade? The problem is that american hegemony also bother some people, and those people dislike Trump but are they still happy for the US to be less strong? I would bet there are some europeans who are happy about the US slowing down, but I don't think t…

As a general rule, the US economy grinding to a halt would be bad for ~everyone. There'd be specific sectors which might benefit, but for Europe as a whole it would be negative.

One arguable pro for Europe from all of this is that it _does_ seem to be strengthening Europe as an institution a bit.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#64

Even though I’m part of the people suffering from his election, over half of US citizens voted for him. They are the only people who can stop him. God bless America.

Your construction is wrong. Just over half of voters selected Trump, about 77 million people. There are about 244 million people that are eligible to vote, and millions more citizens than that.

(The point being, his active support is probably not quite so high as 1/2 the country)

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#65
post #30
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell your representatives to get their head out of their asses? Democrats: why aren't you more engaged with this? Republicans: How did lowering grocery prices turn into dismantling the services of our government, kissing Putin's rear, and daydreaming about Trump Hotel Gaza? Also, let your friends, family, and loved ones know how you feel.

> Democrats: why aren't you more engaged with this? They have minorities in both houses, and the Republican majority is currently refusing to impeach the president for seizing unconstitutional powers to do things that they want to see done. This has shattered any sane legislative process: Even if legislators reach a compromise and pass a new law, Republicans will just ignore the parts they strongly dislike. Again.

Yeah, I know. It's a shit show. I was just throwing the only frustration I have -- that every one of the Democrats aren't going on Fox "News" (or other distribution outlets) every night to argue. But I was talking more about the Democrats and everyone else who recognizes the problem. I'm just surprised I can still contact my representatives by phone. Maybe more are calling than I realize and they just fixed the "full voicemail" problem.

My R house rep hasn't held a town hall in his district since 2017.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#66
post #16

I am european, and I don't really know if it's really a bad thing for europe. I would say it's bad to lose an ally like the US, especially for defense, but what about trade? The problem is that american hegemony also bother some people, and those people dislike Trump but are they still happy for the US to be less strong? I would bet there are some europeans who are happy about the US slowing down, but I don't think t…

In general, it benefits everyone if countries are strong and successful, though there's also the issues of a strong country using their power against other countries. When there's a strong U.S. it means that there's plenty of wealthy customers for European products and also it's a lot easier to find well-educated U.S. talent to be employed.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#67
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell your representatives to get their head out of their asses? Democrats: why aren't you more engaged with this? Republicans: How did lowering grocery prices turn into dismantling the services of our government, kissing Putin's rear, and daydreaming about Trump Hotel Gaza? Also, let your friends, family, and loved ones know how you feel.

The problem for the Democrats is on the one hand they just have to wait for Trump to crater everything and then take over or they could work against it and be blamed for preventing the Trumpish golden age.

That's a good point. It's amazing what a $44 billion propaganda platform and a quarter billion in cash can buy you.

Fortunately there are still a lot of alternatives. Don't think they can keep papering over it for 4 or even 2 years.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#68

The goal is to destabilize and crater the economy then have the rich scoop it up for cheap right? With the goal of moving closer and closer to a pure rentier economy?

I think people are a _little_ too eager to jump to "there must be a diabolical master plan". It's _Trump_; it's entirely possible that it's just vibes-based. "Tariffs are good because when I say tariffs the rubes cheer loudly at my rallies" sort of thing.

Musk and his ilk of neoreactionary groyper tech-feudalists definitely have a master plan. The Heritage Foundation definitely has a master plan (they published it and everything.) I don't know if I credit Trump with the stability of character to have a "master plan" beyond whatever satisfies his ego in the moment, but it does kind of seem like he isn't really entirely in charge.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#69

The goal is to destabilize and crater the economy then have the rich scoop it up for cheap right? With the goal of moving closer and closer to a pure rentier economy?

really, are we trying to model our economy after Russian oligarchy? After free markets have gotten us this far? Quite counter-intuitive and stupid

Yes, in fact we are. Conservative have been going to Hungary and Russia for years now to learn how to do it. It’s not a surprise Tucker Carlson went to Russia to interview Putin, and to tell us how amazing Russia grocery stores are. It’s not a coincidence Viktor Orban travels to America to speak at conservative conferences.

These people are birds of a feather and they are flocking together.

Re: America faces a Trumpian economic slowdown

#70
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propaganda machine just needs to kick in. They will all be doing Elon salutes in 6 months.

Do you realize how many people don't give two shits about social media or Elon Musk but love to hear from their friends and family? This is not difficult. There are so many ways to broach the subject. Some examples that I feel: I thought Trump was going to lower grocery prices. Who put Elon in charge of dismantling the US government? Why does Trump want a hotel in Gaza of all the ridiculous things you could possibly…

They literally parrot fox news which is on 24/7 in those households. Whatever are the current lines, they'll repeat them. If your family is on the other side, they don't listen anymore.
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