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Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

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Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#61

Post by deadbabe »

acdha wrote: post #49
deadbabe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we simply do not let China invade Taiwan?

That’s incredibly expensive - orders of magnitude more than the CHIPS act – and likely isn’t even possible any more without massive loss of life. China does not have the huge but technologically unsophisticated military of the 1970-80s where American aircraft carriers could prevent an invasion. They’ve spent a lot of effort and espionage building up more equipment and I highly doubt they’ll prove a paper tiger like R…

The CHIPS act is expensive, but I doubt we would do nothing if Taiwan was invaded, so we would end up spending money on both.

Let’s just save the money upfront by scrapping CHIPS and be ready to defend Taiwan from Chinese invasion? Trump was one of the first presidents to recognize Taiwan with a direct phone call.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#63

Post by yieldcrv »

righthand wrote: post #37
yieldcrv wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the administration we address is an exiled government, and population, of China and its still in the name. nice try.

That’s my exact point. The population isn’t all Chinese or considers themselves China. Taipei itself is divided into Japanese, Korean, and Chinese areas all with a distinct culture. There is also an evolving Taiwanese culture. The government is the Republic of China and is a completely different government. It broke away because it does not consider itself China or invest in those values. The island and nation are Ta…

[flagged]

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#64

Post by johnnyanmac »

scarab92 wrote: post #60
johnnyanmac wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a micro level, a person gets money and they get to go about their business. I imagine that's the level of thinking many everyman has on this. But sure, The government is redistributing its wealth and helps stimulate the rest of the economy with the workers they employ. Even for private sector it keeps the wheel turning.

Government doesn’t really have “its wealth”. By taking trillions away from the private sector (in taxes, inflation), it costs the economy tens of millions of jobs. It then spends that to create new jobs. Some of that spending has a positive ROI, such as employing 100 police, to allow 10,000 people to focus about innovating rather than their own safety. On the flip side are many of the jobs in Washington, which dont c…

You can call it a royal "it". We pay taxes, they provide our taxes to various aspects to benefit society.

Congress allocates that, so any grievances on what they agree to spend should be take to your reps. The deadline is in 3 weeks, so be swift!

---

But to go back on-topic: the everyman just sees a job they get money from and can use to invest or stimulate the economy. The other economic overhead is not affecting their day to day... Usually. At least not to a point they complain.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#65

Post by acdha »

deadbabe wrote: post #61
acdha wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s incredibly expensive - orders of magnitude more than the CHIPS act – and likely isn’t even possible any more without massive loss of life. China does not have the huge but technologically unsophisticated military of the 1970-80s where American aircraft carriers could prevent an invasion. They’ve spent a lot of effort and espionage building up more equipment and I highly doubt they’ll prove a paper tiger like R…

The CHIPS act is expensive, but I doubt we would do nothing if Taiwan was invaded, so we would end up spending money on both. Let’s just save the money upfront by scrapping CHIPS and be ready to defend Taiwan from Chinese invasion? Trump was one of the first presidents to recognize Taiwan with a direct phone call.

I see it a bit differently: there’s no way to reliably deter a military invasion of Taiwan short of committing to a nuclear response - the Chinese military is too advanced to be stopped if they make a serious effort. That leaves the primary deterrent as economic: China depends on the global economy and would suffer significantly if they started a war of aggression. That becomes less of a deterrent when the President’s negotiating tactic with authoritarians is to give them what they want and envy their control over the country while his family members negotiate real estate deals. If the Chinese government thinks the United States won’t coordinate global sanctions, the risk is a lot lower.

The CHIPS act doesn’t deter conflict, but it does reduce the damage if it happens. Losing Taiwan now cuts off the most advanced processors in the world but if they’re making them in Arizona that goes from no supply to short supply with a straightforward path to scaling capacity. That’s a big improvement and it’s a fraction of the cost of a conflict.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#66

Post by daft_pink »

Probably an unpopular opinion, but defending Taiwan was always a bluff. Americans aren’t going to die en masse over some random island in the pacific. We will heavily sanction China and use economic tools, but we aren’t going to start World War 3 over some small island in the pacific.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#67

Post by osnium123 »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #42
giardini wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSM has found few American workers willing to work as hard as Taiwan's, so likely no great loss for them.

Uggh, what sad replies & lack of defense amid the replies for TSMC America! 'Lazy American worker!' yada yada. Arizona fab has had top notch quality, out-pacing Taiwan's yields. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/ts... They're making 4nm chips too now, doing fine. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/ts...

Yes but they only achieved this because they brought in a lot of workers from Taiwan. Half the workers in the factory are brought in from Taiwan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/business/tsmc-phoenix-tai...

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#68

Post by deadbabe »

acdha wrote: post #65
deadbabe wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CHIPS act is expensive, but I doubt we would do nothing if Taiwan was invaded, so we would end up spending money on both. Let’s just save the money upfront by scrapping CHIPS and be ready to defend Taiwan from Chinese invasion? Trump was one of the first presidents to recognize Taiwan with a direct phone call.

I see it a bit differently: there’s no way to reliably deter a military invasion of Taiwan short of committing to a nuclear response - the Chinese military is too advanced to be stopped if they make a serious effort. That leaves the primary deterrent as economic: China depends on the global economy and would suffer significantly if they started a war of aggression. That becomes less of a deterrent when the President’…

Except the USA wouldn’t be satisfied with merely deterring conflict: they must ensure China doesn’t have any control over the most advanced processors in the world. And given that Trump is at the helm, nuclear conflict is a very real possibility China has to consider.

Under the aggressive stance of this administration, the CHIPS act doesn’t seem necessary.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#69

Post by _fs »

deadbabe wrote: post #20

I don’t get the doom and gloom, isn’t this just taking us back to before the CHIPS act, 2022? Weren’t we fine then?

No, the CHIPs act was a direct result of Covid-19 highlighting the fact that we do not posses the ability to produce the amount of chips required by both private companies and federal agencies. When trade from China basically stopped, companies were scrambling to source the chips required to continue production. CHIPs was an attempt to solve that. What if the next emergency is not a natural disaster, but a consequence of wartime action. Our weapons needs those chips.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#70

Post by disqard »

_fs wrote: post #69
deadbabe wrote: post #20

I don’t get the doom and gloom, isn’t this just taking us back to before the CHIPS act, 2022? Weren’t we fine then?

No, the CHIPs act was a direct result of Covid-19 highlighting the fact that we do not posses the ability to produce the amount of chips required by both private companies and federal agencies. When trade from China basically stopped, companies were scrambling to source the chips required to continue production. CHIPs was an attempt to solve that. What if the next emergency is not a natural disaster, but a consequenc…

If that happens, the govt will commandeer all the Big Tech data centers, and strip-mine them for gpus to stick inside weapons.

Kinda-sorta like how car factories were repurposed to produce military aircraft during World War II.

I think it'll be ironic if things come to that -- NVidia unable to get fresh silicon, and scads of them sitting around, powering LLMs... we could see amazing shenanigans where certain folks cut deals (cough graft cough) to get to keep most of their gpus, while others get liquidated, and implode.

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