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One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

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Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#61
post #58
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think consciousness arises from the brain. I tend to agree, but it doesn't fully explain Benj Hellie's vertiginous question [1]. Everyone seems to have brains, but for some reason only I am me. If we were able to make an atom-by-atom accurate replica of your brain (and optionally your body, too), with all the memories intact, would you suddenly start seeing the world from two different pair of eyes at the same ti…

> What would make you (the original) different from your replica? You’d be in two different locations, have independent experiences, and your world lines would quickly diverge. Both of you would remember a common past. How do you know when you wake up in the morning that you are the same “I” as you remember from the previous day? Who isn’t to say that the universe didn’t multiply while you were asleep, and now there…

I think this is what severance is about.

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#62

The confabulation to justify picking out related images that the left brain never observed (chicken and snow shovel in the article) reminds me profoundly of the confident slop produced by LLMs. Make you wonder if llms might be one half of the "brain" of a true AGI

along those lines, maybe dreaming is piecing together new adventures imagined from snippets of reality.

Those videos about ai making up a game after having watched countless hours of streaming is fucked up. It looks completely how dreams do

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#63

The confabulation to justify picking out related images that the left brain never observed (chicken and snow shovel in the article) reminds me profoundly of the confident slop produced by LLMs. Make you wonder if llms might be one half of the "brain" of a true AGI

confident slop.

The confidence seems to be an artifact of fine tuning. The first instruction trained models were given data sets with answers to questions but generally omitted non answers to things the model didn't know.

Later research showed that models know that they don't know certain pieces of information, but the fine tuning constraint of providing answers did not give them the ability to express that they didn't know.

Asking the model questions against known information can produce a correct/incorrect map detailing a sample of facts that the model knows and does not know. Fine tuning a model to say "I don't know" in response to the those questions where it was incorrect can allow it to generalise the concept to its internal concept of unknown.

It is good to keep in mind that the models we have been playing with are just the first ones to appear. GPT 3.5 is like the Atari 2600. You can get it provide a limited experience for what you want and its cool that you can do it at all, but it is fundamentally limited and far from an ideal solution. I see the current proliferation of models to be like the Cambrian explosion of early 8 bit home computers. Exciting and interesting technology which can be used for real world purposes, but you still have to operate with the knowledge of the limitations forefront in your mind and tailor tasks to allow them to perform the bits they are good at. I have no-idea of the timeframe, but there is plenty more to come. There have been a lot of advances revealed in papers. A huge number of those advances have not yet coalesced into shipping models. When models cost millions to train you want to be using a set of enhancements that play nicely together. Some features will be mutually exclusive. By the time you have analysed the options to find an optimal combination, a whole lot of new papers will be suggesting more options.

We have not yet got the thing for AI that Unix was for computers. We are just now exposing people to the problems that drives the need to create such a thing.

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#64
All of this is way above my paygrade, however.. There exists this work by Julian Jaynes called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind: https://ia802907.us.archive.org/32/items/The_Origin_Of_Consc...

Seems pertinent, and now I will try to read it again. Perhaps it will be useful for reference by others.

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basis of human irrationality is not tied to the basis of LLM irrationality. LLMs don't get to make value judgements, because they don't "understand". They predict the subsequent points of a pattern given a starting point. Humans do that, but they also jade their perception with emotive ethics, desires, optimism and pessimism. It is impossible to say that two humans with the exact same experience would always come…

Conversely, human beings with varying particular experiences can come to the same conclusions, because human cognition can abstract from particulars, while LLMs are, at best, statistical and imagist. No two of us ever experience the same set of triangles, but abstraction allows us to form concepts like "triangularity", which means we can understand what it means to be a triangle per se (something that is not concrete…

Different LLMs can also come to the same conclusions, that is, predict the same strings of tokens (in the meaning).

Sure, they're a far way from the capacity of humans in terms of short term training. But there is literally nothing that indicates they can't "think" (understand, reason, abstract, whatever word you wanna put in italics) because nobody can explain what it really means, because: it's all just predicting. Text happens to be super useful for us to evaluate certain aspects of predicting.

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#66

Looks like this was one of the inspirations behind severance.

It's certainly an inspiration for the Zizian cult, a group of vegan computer programmers currently being investigated by US authorities for a string of murders across the US. [0, 1]

> LaSota believed that humans have two minds, a left and right hemisphere, and each hemisphere can be good or evil, according to posts on her blog. Eventually, LaSota came to believe that only very few people — she among them — are double good. [1]

[0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/02/19/zizian... [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/german-math-genius-get-...

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#67
>Miller’s study uses a test called the “trait-judgment task”: A trait like happy or sad flashes on a screen, and research subjects indicate whether the trait describes them. Miller has slightly modified this task for his split-brain patients—in his experiments, he flashes the trait on a screen straight in front of the subject’s gaze, so that both the left and right hemispheres process the information. Then, he quickly flashes the words “me” and “not me” to one side of the subject’s gaze—so that they’re processed only by one hemisphere—and the subject is instructed to point at the trait on the screen when Miller flashes the appropriate descriptor.

Seems to me (not a neuroscientist) like there's a flaw in that experiment: how would the right hemisphere understand the meaning of the words, if language is only processed by the left? I also recall reading that the more "primitive" parts of our brains don't have a concept of negation.

But maybe they have been considering this and it's no issue?

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#68
i haven't had any split brain operation done or anything but my personal experience as someone with dissociative identity disorder is that i can usually tell which parts are more left or right brained based on how they react to everyday events

for our particular brain , the logical ones usually have immediate reactions that suck (like borderline personality disorder) and the emotional ones tend to have mish mash wordses feelings

(idk how to write that it's like words-es, the s at the end is very gender for emotional feelings words so all of them tend to have it)

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#69
I always thought it was interesting that the human brain grew relatively quickly in evolutionary history. 3 million years ago, our ancestors had a 400 cc brain. 2.5 million years later, it was 1,400 ccs--more than 3 times larger.

That implies to me that a larger brain immediately benefited our ancestors. That is, going from 400 to 410 ccs had evolutionary advantage and so did 410 to 420, etc.

That implies that once the brain architecture was set, you could increase intelligence through scale.

I bet there are some parallels to current AI there.

Re: One Head, Two Brains: The origins of split-brain research (2015)

#70

I always thought it was interesting that the human brain grew relatively quickly in evolutionary history. 3 million years ago, our ancestors had a 400 cc brain. 2.5 million years later, it was 1,400 ccs--more than 3 times larger. That implies to me that a larger brain immediately benefited our ancestors. That is, going from 400 to 410 ccs had evolutionary advantage and so did 410 to 420, etc. That implies that once t…

This comment reminded me of "A Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence" by Jeff Hawkins, which explores this. To Hawkins, the brain's relatively fast evolution implies there's a general-purpose "compute" unit that, once it evolved once, could proliferate without novel evolutionary design. He claims this unit is the brain's cortical column, and provides a lot of interesting evidence and claims that I no longer remember :)
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