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Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

techcrunch.com

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Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#61

Post by belorn »

GJim wrote: post #20
pstuart wrote: post #3

Hydrogen has its place in our energy economy but its got too many issues to be used to power vehicles. Batteries have won, and synthesized hydrocarbons will be the alternative for where batteries won't work (i.e., most commercial air travel). That said, it's a pity to see this failure.

> Hydrogen has its place in our energy economy It certainly does not! (At least, not in any meaningful sense). A) How do you store it? Hydrogen does not compress to a liquid (except a cryogenic temperatures), meaning storage requires bulky, heavy and dangerous high pressure storage..... or cryo kit. B) Where do you get the hydrogen from? Electrolysis of water gives less hydrogen energy out than electrical energy you…

Green hydrogen as a power source was and still is the primary plan in the Germany green party program in order to solve the grid-scale battery issue, and was the primary argument in EU when they defined natural gas as a green transition solution. Are you saying that this strategy was the natural gas industry all along, and that green hydrogen in grid-scale size is unlikely to solve the problem of climate change?

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#63

Post by zdragnar »

rlewkov wrote: post #62

Electric truck ... nuff said

Why is that? Light duty trucks and SUVs outsell cars in the US. They are comfortable to ride in, have better leg room and head room, and have a heavier duty frame that enables them to haul and tow more as needed. You can fit a plow on many trucks as well in snowy regions.

Electrifying them has only upsides with the exception of road weight and range, but I'm repeatedly told that's not a problem for cars anymore.

Granted, the F150 lightning hasn't done well compared to Ford's expectations, which might say a lot about the reality of range concerns (especially when towing).

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#64

Post by DarmokJalad1701 »

Me000 wrote: post #10
idontwantthis wrote: post #5

Remember when they rolled a car down hill because it couldn’t even drive?

Imagine if someone had said this about Tesla. They would have been swamped if wall of text responses. At least Nikola delivered what they promised.

> At least Nikola delivered what they promised.

Ah yes. The Nikola Gravity Drive™ has been a roaring success and is now powering millions of trucks worldwide. This bankruptcy is merely a blip in their continuing success.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#65

Post by nradov »

exabrial wrote: post #41

The entire purpose of Nikola was to create proliferation route for taxpayer dollars into private bank accounts. To this end, they were moderately successful. A few other ding dongs, like GM, didn't do their due diligence and also fell for it.

In GM's defense, the deal with Nikola didn't really cost them anything. It only damaged their reputation. Some other clueless investors then assumed that GM had done due diligence before signing the agreement, which was never the case.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#66

Post by cheema33 »

mempko wrote: post #45
bayesianbot wrote: post #6

I always wondered how it kept some value for a long time after the Hindenburg Research report[1]. To me, the report (and the CEO's empty response to it) made it clear there was pretty much no value in it, but the stock only lost 50% in the following week. [1] https://hindenburgresearch.com/nikola/

I watched a Demuro video where he visited Nikola's factory. Yes, the founder defrauded investors, but it's clear the engineers were building real things. They just were nowhere near where the founder claimed. So there is probably some value there, as it's not complete vaporware. But clearly they couldn't turn it around.

> but it's clear the engineers were building real things

Nikola did not build their own vehicles. They bought their vehicles from Iveco in Europe and made small modifications including putting their names on them.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#67

Post by cheema33 »

dawnerd wrote: post #42

There’s quite a few driving around SoCal, mostly by WattEV for testing. Figured they were selling enough to keep going but guess not.

> Figured they were selling enough to keep going but guess not.

They were buying their vehicles from Iveco in Europe. Putting their name on them and selling them at a loss here in the US. Making money by selling vehicles was never the goal with this company. Defrauding foolish investors was the primary money maker.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#68

Post by cheema33 »

dismalaf wrote: post #33
idontwantthis wrote: post #5

Remember when they rolled a car down hill because it couldn’t even drive?

How do you even make an electric car that can't drive? Electric drivetrains are way, way simpler than ICE ones...

> How do you even make an electric car that can't drive?

The "pusher" truck was not supposed to be EV. It was supposed to be a Hydrogen truck. In reality it was neither.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#69

Post by cheema33 »

pstuart wrote: post #3

Hydrogen has its place in our energy economy but its got too many issues to be used to power vehicles. Batteries have won, and synthesized hydrocarbons will be the alternative for where batteries won't work (i.e., most commercial air travel). That said, it's a pity to see this failure.

> That said, it's a pity to see this failure.

Nikola did not really make anything. They bought trucks from Iveco in Europe and resold them here. They would sometimes customize a few things including putting their logo on the trucks.

Re: Troubled electric truck maker Nikola files for bankruptcy

#70

Post by michaelt »

guywithahat wrote: post #59
kimbernator wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like stock value and real value have been entirely decoupled

I mean they still had ~$50 million in cash on hand, plus some teams and prototypes. I certainly wouldn't have invested, but if you have $50 million, the potential to sell more stock, and a prototype there's still a lot you can do.

If a business has $50 million in cash on hand and no significant liabilities, the business is worth at least $50 million, no doubt.

However that still leaves $29.95 billion of the $30 billion valuation unexplained.

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