Or install and configure a Linux server or design a system without access to turn-key cloud primitives.
New junior developers can’t code
61–70 of 138 posts
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#62There’s no real connection to junior developers in this article. It’s a piece about how the author feels people are using AI and how the author feels people should use AI. The quick fix vs deep understanding positions are mired by many factors; two of the big ones being time and how much one cares none of which are actually discussed.
^ this. If a junior dev is legitimately interested in software development and how things work, they will use these tools for more than just completing their tasks and a paycheck and will eventually stand out above their peers who don't.
If the author is suggesting that more junior devs today than in the past are only interested getting tasks done and the paycheck, then this really has nothing to do with AI.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#63There’s a lot of “people have been complaining about the youth for a long time” in these comments. I get where that’s coming from. However, I don’t think these complaints are the same. Let’s not approach this from the youth, but from the technology that’s supposedly corrupting the youth. Stack Overflow, C compilers, Python are all mentioned as previous examples of technologies that were supposedly making people bad d…
Old people have been complaining about the youth for 2000 years but THIS time they're right.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#64When I was younger people derided us new junior developers who relied on compiling and running their code to see what it would do, instead of thinking deeply about it. Using a REPL is a sure sign of a weak mind. I feel like every 15 years or so you can just find-and-replace the name of the tech we decide is only for Not Real Programmers.
I've gotten lazy and do that far too often. But yes, it's better to only use actually running it to verify that it does why I already know it'll do.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#65How long can a junior dev last simply using AI day in, day out? Is it enough to ship high quality products? I assume at least most of them eventually learn the proper skills when they are no longer "junior" devs. It seems like the usual "fake it til you make it" style a lot of people do to get by.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#66I for one am very excited about where things are going.
I know we're getting fewer "traditional" junior devs, but I'm seeing more and more designers and product managers contributing, at a frequency which was much harder pre-GPT.
In my roles as a head of product/eng, I've always encouraged non-technical team members to either learn coding or data to get better results, but always had limited success, as folks were scared of it (a) being hard, (b) taking too much time to get proficient.
But that's changing now, and fast - and these junior devs are becoming proficient much faster and leading to much business and customer outcomes.
I'm seeing more realistic goals, sprints, etc. I'm seeing fewer front/backend bottleneck, and lastly I'm seeing fewer pixel moving requests going to senior engineers.
As other have mentioned juniors were often unable to code prior to LLMs, and what helped make them better was code reviews, bugs and general mentorship. Those tools to make them better are still available to us.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gen Z also has a lower crime rate, less teen birth rates, and less illegal drugs and alcohol consumption when compared to previous generations at the same age.
Yes; but are we silly enough here to believe that it’s because they have some newfound sense of morality that is guiding their actions? No. They are so deep into other things that the old vices have lost their appeal. I argue that what’s really happening is that this is the most introverted generation (lockdowns playing a part). Home is comfortable, safe, entertaining, free of judgement, and has never been less borin…
I didn't say anything about their morality, just that by some statistics gen z is better than previous generations.
They are not better or worse. Just different.
Their music sucks, though.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#68Pretty easy to filter out a majority of devs who don't know much including juniors before hiring. Not knowing stackflow doesn't mean much, but then again professors think that's cheating so why should they reference it. No reason to trash jr devs, they don't know what they don't know because colleges ignore what they need in preparation for real world interviews and readable resumes.
A Computer Science degree does not teach you to be a good software engineer. In fact, you don't even need a degree to be a good software engineer. For 99% of the software engineering jobs, employers are not looking people who know the theory of computation, algorithmic complexity, operating systems, compilers, or even how a database works. What they want is the following:
0. A strong desire to solve the user's problem and the organization's problem.
1. Knowledge of a major programming language like JavaScript, Java, Python, C/C++, C#, etc.
2. Knowledge of how to use an SQL database or maybe a no SQL database.
3. Knowledge of how to debug the build process and write scripts in Bash, PowerShell, etc.
4. Knowledge of at least 1 major framework.
5. Knowledge of Linux, MacOS, or Windows.
6. An ability to read documentation and learn.
7. An ability to debug large programs and fix bugs without introducing more bugs.
8. A desire to think critically and choose the appropriate technology for the problem (very hard, takes a lot of experience).
9. An ability to write clear code which others will understand.
10. The ability to write, argue, and persuade others.
11. A good person who works well with others, puts the product before himself, and is honest.
Almost all of these things are not taught to computer science majors. At best, a person will learn 1 to 2 languages and maybe Linux. Expecting computer science programs to produce good software engineers is crazy because software engineering and computer science are two different things.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes; but are we silly enough here to believe that it’s because they have some newfound sense of morality that is guiding their actions? No. They are so deep into other things that the old vices have lost their appeal. I argue that what’s really happening is that this is the most introverted generation (lockdowns playing a part). Home is comfortable, safe, entertaining, free of judgement, and has never been less borin…
I didn't say anything about their morality, just that by some statistics gen z is better than previous generations. They are not better or worse. Just different. Their music sucks, though.
“Better” because they’ve found even worse replacements.
Who needs to get a girl pregnant, when you can jack off twice a day to a unique body every day for the next decade? Heck, why even get married or even get a girlfriend at all, at any point (also a statistical low)?
Who needs alcohol and drugs, when you can drown your sorrows into hundreds of hours of gaming? And you’ve been doing this since you were 10 years old and playing 12 hours straight on weekends? (There is literally a 10 year old relative in my life doing this.)
This generation is better on the statistics - but we have no reason to believe the outcomes are better. We have every reason to believe that they will be worse for it.
Not just that they might - look at the statistics, it’s already happening. Antidepressant rates among teen girls has literally increased 130% in 5 years.
Re: New junior developers can’t code
#70There’s a lot of “people have been complaining about the youth for a long time” in these comments. I get where that’s coming from. However, I don’t think these complaints are the same. Let’s not approach this from the youth, but from the technology that’s supposedly corrupting the youth. Stack Overflow, C compilers, Python are all mentioned as previous examples of technologies that were supposedly making people bad d…
> And why is AI hailed as a game changer? Precisely because AI takes the thinking out of the achieving.
So, like WYSIWYG designers and RAD tools?