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Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

theguardian.com

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Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#61

Post by whimsicalism »

sympil wrote: post #50
whimsicalism wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its preferential hiring or at minimum recruiting/sourcing on the basis of race, its discriminatory by definition

DEI is not about preferential hiring. It’s the opposite. It’s about broadening the perspectives so that one group that has enjoyed historical preferential hiring no longer gets preferential treatment.

is affirmative action preferential?

idk what to tell you, the way it plays out in practice is preferential on the basis of race. maybe that’s okay, but that is absolutely what it means

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#62

Post by Aachen »

rkagerer wrote: post #19

Google used AI to summarize the ~200 questions its employees posed ahead of this meeting regarding its DEI and AI policies. The final two paragraphs of the article are telling: The third-most-popular question employees asked was why the AI summaries were so bad. “The AI summaries of questions on Ask are terrible. Can we go back to answering the questions people actually asked?” it read. I thought summarization was a…

About half the casualties in any war are civilian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)

> what makes us think it's safe to use in the context of war?

Those in charge probably found that it performs on par but without paid time off or medical bills

Frankly, I hadn't put this together yet until thinking on your comment. This is hecking scary if the country I live in ends up in a war now

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#63

Post by Aurornis »

JCM9 wrote: post #13

The AI items are concerning. The DEI stuff though is gone and isn’t coming back. The concept was well intentioned but, quite ironically, these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior and it was becoming increasingly hard to paint them as anything else.

> these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior and it was becoming increasingly hard to paint them as anything else

The last corporate DEI initiative I was pulled into was so blatantly discriminatory that many of us were scrambling to remove ourselves from hiring roles as quickly as possible.

One of the few times I’ve been speechless in a meeting was when someone proudly told us they had just rejected a perfect candidate for the role because they were a man and not a minority, and we “had enough of those”. This was followed by a debate about whether Asians qualified as a minority in the context of a tech company.

I started working on my exit from that company as quickly as possible. These were ex-FAANG executives but they had been out of FAANG long enough that they likely came up with these ideas on their own, I think.

To be honest, I’ve been very hesitant to even talk about that situation in person because it’s such a minefield.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#64

Post by whimsicalism »

kevingadd wrote: post #51
whimsicalism wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its preferential hiring or at minimum recruiting/sourcing on the basis of race, its discriminatory by definition

DEI stands for "diversity, equity and inclusion", discriminatory hiring is a pretty extreme misinterpretation of those three words. It's no doubt true that somebody out there decided that the way to achieve the aim of a diverse/equitable/inclusive workplace was discriminatory hiring, but it's not the only way to get there, and it's not how most workplaces were going about it.

at pretty much every large tech company there were interview quotas imposed, top down pressure on hiring decisions.. it matches pretty closely what universities did

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#65

Post by whimsicalism »

Aachen wrote: post #57
whimsicalism wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my guess is any new administration would realize it’s a massive political loser. i’m personally in favor of some limited AA in unis, but if even black people are majority against AA when polled… it’s definitely not coming back. might be that this changes once minority groups realize how much of an impact it was actually having, i think a large segment of people convinced themselves that a lot more of these admissions…

What's an aa? I get American Airlines when I duck it and I know of libaa but that doesn't fit the context either

affirmative action. you can also generally just copy and paste into chatgpt and it will be able to answer your question

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#66

Post by jglamine »

knallfrosch wrote: post #14

I always wonder how they do it. These spineless corporate suits. One month they're shoving DEI down your throat ("underrepresented, marginalized"), next month they're killing these programs and writing that they have always hired the "best" people for the job. Obviously, some people of the organization are different, but not all. How do they do it? Just treat it like a job and do whatever the bag full of money demand…

The book Moral Mazes: The World of Corporate Managers explores this question. It was written in the 80s as an anthropological study of the ethics of middle managers at large companies. It still holds up today!

The book is descriptive - describing the ethical norms in large corporations, but it doesn't make a value judgement on whether those norms are good or bad.

A fascinating read of you're curious about the structural reasons for this sort of behavior. Really interesting to see how people act by different ethical codes inside vs outside of work.

It's not ideal, but also not likely to change. Understanding the structural reasons why it is the way it is has helped me to be less surprised / angry by things like this which I can't change.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#67

Post by relaxing »

rl3 wrote: post #27

Microsoft interestingly enough appears to be standing their ground on DEI. [0] Yet, they hopped on the layoff train this time around with a particularly nasty twist. [1] Perhaps they were afraid they'd need to be sociopathic in at least one regard, lest they buck the wider ethos lately. Facebook for example, offered generous severance packages but threw DEI in the trash immediately. [2] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/20…

Healthcare and salary stops when your employment is terminated? Damn, next you’ll tell me ex-Microsofties are shut out of the free drinks cooler.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#68

Post by [deleted] »

Aachen wrote: post #57
whimsicalism wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my guess is any new administration would realize it’s a massive political loser. i’m personally in favor of some limited AA in unis, but if even black people are majority against AA when polled… it’s definitely not coming back. might be that this changes once minority groups realize how much of an impact it was actually having, i think a large segment of people convinced themselves that a lot more of these admissions…

What's an aa? I get American Airlines when I duck it and I know of libaa but that doesn't fit the context either

[deleted]

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#69

Post by gcr »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #22
JCM9 wrote: post #13

The AI items are concerning. The DEI stuff though is gone and isn’t coming back. The concept was well intentioned but, quite ironically, these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior and it was becoming increasingly hard to paint them as anything else.

They are also now illegal by executive order which is the main reason companies are getting rid of them. I agree with you they were biased but companies don't care about that

In what way are they illegal? The EOs only apply to federal agencies and their immediate subcontractors.

Wouldn’t interpreting the EO as setting limits on the private sector be government overreach?

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#70

Post by ceejayoz »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #58
CharlieDigital wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior Professional sports went through a "DEI" phase. Despite some rough patches, I'd say that it worked out for the better as a whole if you look at it in retrospect. Similarly, individual companies may have fumbled DEI initiatives, but years on, I think it will have had a (small) positive impact.

How does professional sports go through a DEI phase?? Professional sports are one of the few true meritocracies in the world, where the best players, no matter their race, religion or gender, will play.

Unless they kneel for the anthem, of course.
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