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The Death of the Web (2024)

garry.net

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Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#61
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did, it's called gemini: https://geminiprotocol.net/

I actually considered linking to gemini in my comment! The reason I didn't is to avoid a discussion of how I personally would design tools for an alternate web. I think gemini is a step in the right direction, but not enough to supplant the web for a large enough minority of users. Not that it takes many users - the web was vibrant in 1995 with 100x fewer people on it than today. I don't know that the specific qualit…

> The reason I didn't is to avoid a discussion of how I personally would design tools for an alternate web.

Nevertheless, it can be of interest, in case someone does have the ideas. (I have seen other stuff in Hacker News and elsewhere, too.)

What are the specific qualities you personally would want for a web replacement? (You are probably right that they are not the right ones for everybody, but still it might be worth to mention.)

About control, to curb commercial activity and abuse, how would you expect that it should be done? (For most things the existing security is good enough but for commercial business you will want a better security for the purpose of the identification. But, maybe you have other ideas.)

I also have my own ideas for what I would want for a web replacement too (but, like Gemini, it does not have to destroy or be mutually exclusive with WWW or with anything else; see Gemini protocol FAQ 1.13), which I had made available (I wrote Scorpion protocol/file-format specification document).

One thing is that, it shouldn't be between Gopher (or Gemini) and WWW; instead it should be between Gemini and "WWW as it should be if it was designed better".

(Also, Gemini protocol can be made by making a TLS connection to port 1965 and then send the URL and a carriage return and line feed. This is a simplified explanation, but it is good enough to find the specification document in case you want to access it directly rather than HTTPS or something else.)

(Also note: I think that non-extensibility of Gemini protocol/file-format does not really work so well as they had expected. Some files do use extensions not mentioned in there, such as SGR codes. There are also many other ways to put extensions, such as into the X.509 certificate (and since TLS is mandatory, such a thing will always be available), as hidden Unicode characters (since they insist on using Unicode), trailing spaces (like ProleText does), and other ways.)

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#62
post #38

I have a theory that part of why you don't see such great niche sites now is that they were the productive of cognitive surplus. People had spare brain power and not that much to do with it, so they built and contributed to fun sites. Now, FB and YouTube and Tiktok etc have gotten very good at consuming all that free time and energy. Just a theory.

I can see some of it coming back. Myself I find AI has restored my joy with development by removing most of the drudge and leaving me to be mostly in charges of ideas and direction. It has reduced the amount of time required to build something and works around some of that metacognitive laziness that had crept in.

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#63
post #13

Not every was around when the web was obscure. It's hard to explain how magical that time was. The pinnacle of the web for me was Audio Galaxy. A website where you could find new music to download and even push music to your friend's computer (using the Audio Galaxy Satellite app) [1]. I spent so much time in IRC rooms and discussion forums. It wasn't doom scrolling. No one was trying to manipulate me for my time or…

I imagine people will have the same nostalgia for doom scrolling one day ;)

In 2025 you get a lot more doom for your scroll. It certainly cuts down on wear and tear.

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#64
post #38

I have a theory that part of why you don't see such great niche sites now is that they were the productive of cognitive surplus. People had spare brain power and not that much to do with it, so they built and contributed to fun sites. Now, FB and YouTube and Tiktok etc have gotten very good at consuming all that free time and energy. Just a theory.

[deleted]

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#65
post #38

I have a theory that part of why you don't see such great niche sites now is that they were the productive of cognitive surplus. People had spare brain power and not that much to do with it, so they built and contributed to fun sites. Now, FB and YouTube and Tiktok etc have gotten very good at consuming all that free time and energy. Just a theory.

You don’t see it because we’re all back in the gated community of AOL, but rather than clicking on an icon to a community you click a Google search result.

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#66
> I thought it would bring people together, but instead, it's used to find and create new ways in which we can group and hate each other.

As McLuhan wrote, "The Medium is the Message". AFAICT, the medium known as "the web" is (paradoxically) not about interconnection, but its core property is fragmentation.

This intrinsic nature is turbocharged via algorithmic per-user "engagement optimization".

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say. People certainly seem pretty motivated (and better equipped than 10-20 years ago) to create content for money. It just feels like there is less whimsical, fun expenditure of effort.

A lot of what is being created is fairly derivative though, it's often more like a grift than an act of innovation. Actually coming up with something new damn near requires a fair bit of cognitive surplus.

Yeah, Kevin Munger's book skillfully dissects what he calls "The YouTube Apparatus" [0]

The creators aren't really tuning their output based on consumer feedback, they're actually optimizing for the platform's metrics, so it's the (algorithmic) machine incentivizing humans to essentially feed it money.

[0] https://kevinmunger.substack.com/p/in-the-belly-of-the-mrbea...

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#68
Coming from the guy who shut down Facepunch forums with the snap of his fingers without a single ounce of care about all that content that would just disappear.

Complaining about a forest fire when you've thrown your share of cigarettes is rich.

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#69
post #13

Not every was around when the web was obscure. It's hard to explain how magical that time was. The pinnacle of the web for me was Audio Galaxy. A website where you could find new music to download and even push music to your friend's computer (using the Audio Galaxy Satellite app) [1]. I spent so much time in IRC rooms and discussion forums. It wasn't doom scrolling. No one was trying to manipulate me for my time or…

The version of doom scrolling then was refreshing threads on your common-interest forum. Or staring blankly at the screen waiting for the next chat message.

Chat obviously still exists but… I don't know. Discord et al don't feel like the IRC channels of yesteryear, but I don't know why. Not having to battle nickserv? Too much external media?

Perhaps speed is part of this. On a 56k, with 30kbps down, you couldn't rush around. Everything in the process came with load times. Forced meditation.

I miss it.

Re: The Death of the Web (2024)

#70
post #13

Not every was around when the web was obscure. It's hard to explain how magical that time was. The pinnacle of the web for me was Audio Galaxy. A website where you could find new music to download and even push music to your friend's computer (using the Audio Galaxy Satellite app) [1]. I spent so much time in IRC rooms and discussion forums. It wasn't doom scrolling. No one was trying to manipulate me for my time or…

I imagine people will have the same nostalgia for doom scrolling one day ;)

I fear to dream what's next. Push media?
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