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How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

reuters.com

61–70 of 311 posts

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Mazda?

TLDR; Mazda should merge with Nissan while they still can do it on a fire sale. Mazda is a huge outlier in manfacturing because they are small, but have motorsports calibre/history (meaning they have a history of homologating sports cars.) Mazda sells an order of magnitude less cars than even newer companies like BYD. Even less than isuzu. Because of this, they can more tightly control investor expectations, profit/l…

Mazda seems to be doing pretty well selling SUVs in the US though with growing sales and its highest US market share since 1990.

https://www.automotivedive.com/news/mazda-boosts-us-market-s...

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have huge doubts that Teslas will retain a "halo premium", except in some very strange circles. Already they're an embarrassing car to own and the financials of that company are rapidly flushing down the toilet, making it a question of how long it will be a going concern (hence all the frantic rushing around for legitimacy in other markets...robots, why not?) They are widely cited as unreliable, poorly built vehicl…

> Already they're an embarrassing car to own I don't know if that's true, but I find it all pretty funny regardless. Five or more years ago, people hated Tesla drivers, either because they represented wealth or that they were seen as progressive 'tree huggers'. Today people seem to hate Tesla drivers because the brand is for right wing nazis. I think both takes are misguided, and I don't know how popular those takes…

Did people really hate Tesla drivers? Aside from an extremely niche "rolling coal" sort, they were just a car. An innovative car that had downsides, but also had big upsides like insane torque and big screens (which were odd at the time, but pretty normal now). They were neat to tech sorts.

And notably the average loaded pickup truck -- the kind that fill every highway and road -- is more expensive than the average Tesla, so I don't think it has ever represented wealth, and the "people are jealous" thing has always been rather silly. One of the most common situations to see Teslas today are delivery vehicles and Ubers.

The honeymoon has worn off, though, and the blindness to the many design and build flaws of the vehicle, or the extremely anti-consumer behaviour of that company, has earned it a public sentiment that has declined. Now add that it is the primary wealth vehicle for one of the worst people on the planet, such that it started transitioning into pandering to let's call them bad people (the CyberJunk), and it's just a nameplate carrying a lot of negativity now.

>but I can't help but finding the 180 humorous.

The both-sidism thing is so incredibly boring. If everyone else didn't start making pretty good EVs, Tesla kept iterating and making better products with better quality and dealing with their customers better (instead of making ridiculous nonsense like their useless truck or robots or whatever else), and it wasn't associated with bankrolling a garbage huamn being, it would still be a beloved brand. But it isn't 2019 anymore.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#63
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one graph that basically predicts which countries are going to fail and which are going to prevail. It's the graph that shows how many people in the "doing things" age bracket a country has. Compare these: (germany) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=276&type=Probabilis... (alternatively, Europe as a whole) https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=908&type=Probabilis... (Japan) https://population.un.org…

What happens when a country fails?

[deleted]

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLDR; Mazda should merge with Nissan while they still can do it on a fire sale. Mazda is a huge outlier in manfacturing because they are small, but have motorsports calibre/history (meaning they have a history of homologating sports cars.) Mazda sells an order of magnitude less cars than even newer companies like BYD. Even less than isuzu. Because of this, they can more tightly control investor expectations, profit/l…

Mazda seems to be doing pretty well selling SUVs in the US though with growing sales and its highest US market share since 1990. https://www.automotivedive.com/news/mazda-boosts-us-market-s...

That's been my impression, interesting to see it confirmed. They are very well represented on the roads here in SoCal.

They manufacture a lot in Canada and Mexico, though. I guess we'll find out what current events have in store for them and others.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Mazda?

TLDR; Mazda should merge with Nissan while they still can do it on a fire sale. Mazda is a huge outlier in manfacturing because they are small, but have motorsports calibre/history (meaning they have a history of homologating sports cars.) Mazda sells an order of magnitude less cars than even newer companies like BYD. Even less than isuzu. Because of this, they can more tightly control investor expectations, profit/l…

You got it all wrong on Mazda. It's your opinion, but not publics and they're doing damn well now, especially with their great recent SUVs.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#67

Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.

Honest question: are there people who know about Lucid and don’t consider them nicer cars than Teslas?

Tesla doesn’t make a car as nice as the Air Sapphire… I don’t think they could if they wanted to. So they’re forced to stay in the less expensive / less quality market segment

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#68
post #2

IMO a Honda Nissan merger would have been terrible for Honda. Nissan is clearly an anchor, and acquiring it would have just dragged Honda down .

Funny that's what those Nissan CVT's and variable compression engines are only good for, anchors.

nah they're far too freakin fragile to be anchors, given how regularly they shatter or break

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#69
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing you feel that EVs are somehow more maintenance than ICEs. There exist EVs that have never had any manufacturer/dealer input since the day they rolled off the lot. Tesla/Nio are a bad examples - many EVs were built to be sold and essentially ignored by the manufacturer.

After that EV company goes out of business, how are you going to replace that bespoke {$random_part} that broke? Any Fisker Ocean owners want to chime in?[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Ocean

You don't. You buy from a large vehicle manufacturer like Ford, Kia, etc. where they have commitment to parts delivery for the foreseeable future.

Fisker was always a scam if you remember back from days of Fisker Karma.

Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed

#70

While this is HN so any automotive conversation inevitabely becomes an ideological war between EV vs ICE fanatics, this didn't play as significant a role in the failure of Nissan and Honda's merger. As stated in the article - "the merger talks unravelled in a little more than a month due to Nissan's pride and insufficient alarm about its predicament" More critically, Japanese automakers have always tried to diversify…

What about Mazda?

US.

Mazda is also minority-owned by Mitsubishi Group and Toyota Group and co-owns plenty of plants with Toyota, so it's a different story from Nissan Group which retains independence.

At this point, Mazda is an OEM for Toyota Group, and previously they were an OEM for Ford.

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