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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#61

Post by grogenaut »

solardev wrote: post #28
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

I'm the opposite, vs code feels so clunky to me and full of crappy bolted on low and mid quality plugins. Yes it's lower barrier to entry on making things and for editing configs but the configs are opaque, hard to find. Odd for microsoft that it's more of a linux mindset than windows. It feels so janky setting up run configurations or test runs.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#62

Post by vr46 »

homebrewer wrote: post #40
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

You forgot to add "IMHO". IDEA has fantastic UI, it's fully configurable and 100% usable through pre-assigned hotkeys. For example, fuzzy search is available everywhere , in every tool window, in the database window, in search results, etc. The same key combination (ctrl+alt+arrow up/down on my instance) can be used to jump between search results, symbol usages, TODOs, linter results, and so on. They thought through…

I literally did not renew last month after twelve years of paying, and longer overall, and the UI was the last straw. I installed the "classic" UI plugin, but it's like you say, I know they're going to drop it. I figured that if I have to use a UI like their new one then I can use VSCode as well, there's no real reason to stay. The real cutting edge stuff is happening over at VSCode anyway. Plus Jetbrains never made a decent VCS interface and I can always use an older version with a permanent fallback licence.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#63

Post by georgemcbay »

konradkissener wrote: post #2

I'm happy to see JetBrains focussing on IntelliJ / Android Studio instead. I was really scratching my head when they announced a standalone KMP IDE based on Fleet just 4 months ago. [1] [1] https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2024/10/kotlin-multiplatfo...

Yeah I've been using KMP a lot for a hobby project app the last couple of months, already shipped on Android and iOS and will have a Windows Desktop version out soon as well.

As someone who has been incredibly frustrated attempting to use multiplatform frameworks in the past and is used to them causing more problems than they solve, I've been very pleasantly surprised by KMP and Compose Multiplatform.

... but I never once used Fleet, I just do all the coding in Android Studio.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#64

Post by vunderba »

ok123456 wrote: post #31
deergomoo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would happily pay through the nose for their language and refactoring features as some sort of LSP or plugin for other editors. I use their products because that aspect is best-in-class for many languages, but the actual applications themselves leave a lot of be desired. Core text editing is pretty good, but so many Byzantine nested menus and odd Java fully-modal locks-out-the-background dialogs.

> Byzantine nested menus crtl-shift-a

Was just going to post that yeah, ALL the JetBrains IDEs have a "Command Palette" with fuzzy search for all actions. I can't remember the last time I even went through the menu bar.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#65

Post by vr46 »

codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

Yeah, agreed, long time user, just let my sub lapse. I don't like VSCode like I did IDEA but all the features are there, and more, much more. The AI integration and choices (Cursor, Trae, RooCode, Aide, Windsurf, PearAI, etc etc etc) are way better and honestly take the place of a lot of stuff Jetbrains had an advantage on. Also Jetbrains stuff is often not working or unreliable - developing within Docker containers, for one, and it keeps popping up with their shit AI assistant that you can't disable. Honestly, what is this, Clippy and MS Office?

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#66

Post by sureIy »

brandonmenc wrote: post #54
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

> with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s Some of us love this UI.

[flagged]

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#67

Post by invalidname »

arwineap wrote: post #8
malkia wrote: post #6

I've been long user of JetBrains' products - and love them. I even use ReSharper in Visual Studio (which I still consider better IDE, but for Linux / Mac - JetBrains is my choice, and heck, sometimes even Rider/CLion/RustRover/GoLand on Windows too - especcially GoLand). But... but... I've always wanted (and willing to pay) a single IDE with any plugin that works in it - not just so many different versions... I'm a m…

In jetbrains paradigm you should install IDEA and install python plugin, go plugin, etc. You only have to do it once That should get you within 90%+ use cases

That doesn't work and is a major problem for me. I have a Java project with C++ native code. Using a devcontainer so the C++ dependencies are installed seems like the right thing to do... Unfortunately, I need to use Idea for the devcontainer and can't use both it and clion. Separating it to two projects defeats the purpose as the Java code depends on the C++ code which will be in a different container.

VSCode supports multiple languages in one container just fine. My hacky solution is to use a hybrid container with IntelliJ for the Java code and then connect VSCode to it for doing C++. That means I will be forfeiting my CLion license. I contacted their support (which is reasonably responsive), they say they're working on a solution but I don't know when it will be practical for me.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#68

Post by ninetyninenine »

billllll wrote: post #47
vips7L wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern language landscape has not backed away from checked errors. Rust is praised for its checked errors, countless posts on this forum praise Result in multiple languages. Swift has checked errors and Kotlin is implementing them via union types in the near future. Checked errors, via results or exceptions have never been the problem. It has always been Java the language that hasn't provided the syntax sugar for…

Is Rust praised for its checked errors? I've personally found it extremely verbose since there essentially is no possibility for unchecked errors. Also, external crates like "anyhow" are required if you don't want to account for literally every single possible error case. Really seems like a pedantic's dream but a burden to everyone else. Effective Java recommends checked exceptions only in the case where the caller…

Have you heard of the language elm? The language elm is so safe that it is literally impossible to crash the program short of a memory error.

That's essentially the direction of modern programming languages. It's part of that feeling you get when programming haskell. Once you get it running, it just works. It's very different from the old paradigm where once you get it working, it can crash and you have to debug and do more to get it working better.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#69

Post by sureIy »

konradkissener wrote: post #48
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I don’t understand it either. I don’t think it appeals to many VS Code users, and to IntelliJ users probably even less so. KMP support was the only reason I was still curious about Fleet. I presume this announcement is the beginning of the end for Fleet.

It definitely appeals VSC users like VSC appealed to Sublime Text.

There was really no reason for ST users to switch to VSC other than better tool integration.

Winning people over from VSC means having a free and fast editor with great features and lots of useful plugins. Still a long way to go.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#70

Post by ninetyninenine »

vips7L wrote: post #33
tadfisher wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern language landscape is backing away from checked exceptions. Funnily enough Kotlin eschewed them as well, converting checked to unchecked exceptions on the JVM.

The modern language landscape has not backed away from checked errors. Rust is praised for its checked errors, countless posts on this forum praise Result in multiple languages. Swift has checked errors and Kotlin is implementing them via union types in the near future. Checked errors, via results or exceptions have never been the problem. It has always been Java the language that hasn't provided the syntax sugar for…

Looks like a huge difference to me. The first function throws an error. The second function may not even return an error.
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