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Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

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Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#61

Post by TheFreim »

darkwater wrote: post #13

So, they discarded the form of the face coming from iconography BUT used the colors like hair and skin. This is SO catholic (well, or religious in general).

> form of the face coming from iconography

You imply that there is only one "form" of his face depicted in iconography, but this is not the case. There is wide variation in how he has been depicted going back to the 14th century. Here is a selection of images from the 14th and 15th centuries which are closer to the reconstruction than they are different:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Lippo_Me...

https://www.kressfoundation.org/kress-collection/artwork/498...

https://catholiceducation.org/en/culture/art/saint-thomas-aq...

https://catholicclassicalict.wordpress.com/wp-content/upload...

https://www.wikiart.org/en/fra-angelico/st-thomas-aquinas-14...

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#62

Post by TheFreim »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #18

A weekly Summa Theologica reading group, attended by Catholics and non-Catholics alike, led by a professor with credentials in philosophy and theology, was one of the best experiences of my life: https://sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/

There is also aquinas.cc which has the Summa Theologica as well as a variety of other works by St. Thomas Aquinas, with the Latin text on the left and English on the right.

https://aquinas.cc/

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#64

Post by argentier »

masswerk wrote: post #44

Isn't this reconstruction a bit on the slim side? Aquinas was reportedly, let's say, a man of portly presence. I can't find a scholarly source on the matter, at the moment, but here are two quotes I found on the website of a nun[1] (no less, so probably written in good faith): > St. Thomas was a huge heavy bull of a man, fat and slow and quiet; very mild and magnanimous but not very sociable; shy, even apart from the…

Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton. Judging by the name at least half a millenium separates Myron Shibley from Aquinas.

Can't it just be a myth, as it seems to hang on a single anecdote?

For comparison, the medievals thought that Ovid's name, Publius Ovidius Naso, was because he had a good nose for sniffing out the truth.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#65

Post by abrenuntio »

TheFreim wrote: post #57
masswerk wrote: post #44

Isn't this reconstruction a bit on the slim side? Aquinas was reportedly, let's say, a man of portly presence. I can't find a scholarly source on the matter, at the moment, but here are two quotes I found on the website of a nun[1] (no less, so probably written in good faith): > St. Thomas was a huge heavy bull of a man, fat and slow and quiet; very mild and magnanimous but not very sociable; shy, even apart from the…

The idea that St. Thomas Aquinas was "portly" or even obese is likely an exaggeration that occurred over time due to overemphasis of certain aspects of his appearance. Early accounts depict him as being both very tall and strong having a big head , often with a build closer to a wrestler or football player than that of an obese man. As far as I can tell, St. Thomas was certainly an imposing figure but people have dec…

It might be added that Dominicans had the explicit calling to crown their preaching by leading virtuous lives marked by poverty. As an example of this, especially in the early days, Dominicans traveled a lot by foot as a form of austerity. This could certainly work with having a bit of a girth, but the full experience of 13th century Dominican life is hard to square with "morbid obesity" or being "physically grotesque". We also know that Aquinas was humble, spiritual and deeply motivated to join this new mendicant order specifically. He resisted all attempts of his noble family to steer him in other directions that would have been more prestigious in the eyes of the world. I also remember reading that Aquinas ate only once a day to devote himself more fully to his work (not sure where though).

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#66

Post by taurknaut »

argentier wrote: post #64
masswerk wrote: post #44

Isn't this reconstruction a bit on the slim side? Aquinas was reportedly, let's say, a man of portly presence. I can't find a scholarly source on the matter, at the moment, but here are two quotes I found on the website of a nun[1] (no less, so probably written in good faith): > St. Thomas was a huge heavy bull of a man, fat and slow and quiet; very mild and magnanimous but not very sociable; shy, even apart from the…

Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton. Judging by the name at least half a millenium separates Myron Shibley from Aquinas. Can't it just be a myth, as it seems to hang on a single anecdote? For comparison, the medievals thought that Ovid's name, Publius Ovidius Naso, was because he had a good nose for sniffing out the truth.

> Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton.

I was unaware that Chesterton met Aquinas! He must have been quite old at that point.

I can't imagine anything that Chesterton could add to this conversation. He's reading the same texts the rest of us are. TBH this pretty much sums up his entire career.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#67

Post by AStonesThrow »

lqet wrote: post #26

> “Now, it could be that on the whole we’re a lot larger now than even overweight medievals were, or that St. Thomas was never the portly friar described by his legend,” Father Aquinas quipped, adding, “Regardless, the stories of St. Thomas’ size are probably exaggerated.” According to Martin Luther (who may have had an interest in discrediting him), Thomas Aquinas was able to devour an entire goose, and a piece of h…

Monasteries and religious houses could be well-supported, wealthy, with comfortable lifestyles for the intellectual, and there were a lot of them.

(In those days there was plenty of support and regulation for two, or more men, to get together and live as a family; women as well)

So now we can study figures such as St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, Henry VIII, calling them all to repentance, and consider how their lives ended.

Does anyone know some good Amish furniture for sale online?

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#68

Post by abecedarius »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #60
ryukoposting wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article discusses this. The researchers admit they can't know for sure if they got that part right. On the other hand, standards for body size were very different 750 years ago than today, so that's certainly part of it. Legends tend to get more exaggerated over time, and the legend of Thomas Aquinas has had plenty of time for exaggeration to build up.

It's crazy how standards for body size can change over even shorter time periods. I was watching an old game show with Bob Barker and one of the competitions was for people to guess stats about the "average" man, and then run around Hollywood looking for a man who matched that description. So each competitor would guess the average age, height, number of kids, etc. One woman guessed that the average man weighed 180 p…

Similarly, 70s Steve Wozniak was supposed to be kinda chubby, but people this millennium seeing those old photos are like "what? he's totally average?"

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#69

Post by karaterobot »

red_trumpet wrote: post #30
lqet wrote: post #26

> “Now, it could be that on the whole we’re a lot larger now than even overweight medievals were, or that St. Thomas was never the portly friar described by his legend,” Father Aquinas quipped, adding, “Regardless, the stories of St. Thomas’ size are probably exaggerated.” According to Martin Luther (who may have had an interest in discrediting him), Thomas Aquinas was able to devour an entire goose, and a piece of h…

Also, Luther was born ~250 years after Thomas Aquinas, so this could have already become legend.

Perhaps the most salient reason not to trust his description of the man: he never met Aquinas, nor met anyone who met anyone who met him.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#70

Post by michaelsbradley »

TheFreim wrote: post #62
michaelsbradley wrote: post #18

A weekly Summa Theologica reading group, attended by Catholics and non-Catholics alike, led by a professor with credentials in philosophy and theology, was one of the best experiences of my life: https://sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/

There is also aquinas.cc which has the Summa Theologica as well as a variety of other works by St. Thomas Aquinas, with the Latin text on the left and English on the right. https://aquinas.cc/

Very nice, thank you, I really like it and had not seen it previously!
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