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Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

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Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#61

Post by whymauri »

knubie wrote: post #58
ssklash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

At least among economists it is not that polarizing. Most agree we should get rid of corporate tax. [0] In reality a corporation cannot pay taxes any more than a table can. Only people can pay taxes. So who pays the corporate tax? It must come from the corporation's consumers, employees, or shareholders (or some combination thereof). Raising the corporate tax is just a sneaky way of raising tax on one or more of thos…

>Only people can pay taxes.

But corporations are people..? Can't have it both ways right :/

Unless I'm missing something here.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#62

Post by Aurornis »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

> The article doesn't address the other $1.5B

$2.3 billion was the income, not the tax bill.

Presumably $500M accelerated depreciation and $300M of tax credits covered the effective tax bill on $2.3B income.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#63

Post by nativeit »

bradac56 wrote: post #46
cma wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing in a different year the rate will be much lower: afterall, he gave away $1 million a day to a random registered republican voter in a key swing state to get around laws that prevent buying votes and paying people to register to vote.

That was with his money (you know richest person on the planet) and had nothing to do with Tesla.

I won’t argue it was with his own money, but everything a CEO does affects the company.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#65

Post by noselasd »

snypher wrote: post #23
andreygrehov wrote: post #13

> Sharon Zhang is a news writer at Truthout covering politics, climate and labor. In other words, no experience with how corporate taxes work.

If 0% is how they work, then they don't work.

What if they pay more taxes in the future by using a system for paying less take this time?

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#66

Post by SeanAnderson »

Aurornis wrote: post #62
SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

> The article doesn't address the other $1.5B $2.3 billion was the income, not the tax bill. Presumably $500M accelerated depreciation and $300M of tax credits covered the effective tax bill on $2.3B income.

How would $800M in deductions cover $2.3B income to the tune of a 0% tax rate? Wouldn't they still be on the hook to pay taxes on $1.5B or is it not that simple?

EDIT: Oh, apparently tax credits aren't pre-tax. So if their tax liabilities on $2.3B were $300M then they'd owe $0.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#67

Post by normalaccess »

btmiller wrote: post #10
spiderfarmer wrote: post #2

This will be the downfall of the USA. With the government filling up with grifters, the people and companies who still pay up will feel like losers.

Yep. Paying taxes is the right thing to do for the country. Yet the system gets purposely broken, people lose faith that any system could work, tax dollars run for the shadows, and the cycle accelerates. I don’t know what the fix is. We need to restore faith, but you need revenue to build faith, and revenue depends on established faith.

I'm not sure it's the de facto right thing to do. Recall that the USA didn't tax income until 1913, relying primarily on tariffs and excise taxes to fund the federal government. And yet, the country was doing just fine before that—expanding its infrastructure, winning wars, and growing its economy.

The introduction of income tax fundamentally changed the size and scope of government. With the current size of federal spending, much of it driven by entitlement programs, defense, and interest on debt, there is plenty of room to trim the fat. Bureaucracy, inefficiencies, and bloated administrative costs are all ripe for re-evaluation and the axe.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#68

Post by voidhorse »

erulabs wrote: post #4

> "hoard wealth" > No mention of reinvestment > "Tesla was able to avoid paying ... taxes ... by claiming ... tax credits" (presented as bad somehow) > "We're not backing down" Where or where is the media coverage that attempts to speak to people who don't already buy in to the premise? This isn't journalism it might as well be blogging. Congratulations, you've made the world more polarized!

I mean, the website is pretty honest about its stance when it claims to be about "the history of political struggle", there is also a pop up that states that "journalism is a tool in the anti-fascist toolbox"

I completely sympathize with the desire for nuance, the problem is, there's an inherent tension between reporting facts and providing a nuanced view and galvanizing people into action. I think this venue is clearly trying to do the latter. This is not meant to convince anyone that this is a problem, it's meant to fuel the fire of people who do think it's a problem. Authors have different rhetorical aims whenever they write. You can challenge their use of the word journalism as a descriptor on these grounds, but it's not as though they presented any falsehoods. They are clearly writing to an audience. And, honestly, when problems really are as blatantly severe and bordering on catastrophe as they are today, there's really very little value in trying to convince stodgy people who still refuse to acknowledge a problem.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#69

Post by dhc02 »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #41
SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

> Tax credits seem to make sense for an EV company? That's one of the things that I've found odd. A lot of people that very strongly support things like tax credits for EV cars, in order to fight climate change, will then turn around and talk about how terrible they are when they're actually used, such as in the article here. A lot of times people don't seem to have a consistent view of what they actually want, and w…

I may be the only one, but I was under the impression this whole time that all EV tax credits were for consumers who buy EVs, not companies who sell them.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#70

Post by DanHulton »

knubie wrote: post #58
ssklash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

At least among economists it is not that polarizing. Most agree we should get rid of corporate tax. [0] In reality a corporation cannot pay taxes any more than a table can. Only people can pay taxes. So who pays the corporate tax? It must come from the corporation's consumers, employees, or shareholders (or some combination thereof). Raising the corporate tax is just a sneaky way of raising tax on one or more of thos…

> a corporation cannot pay taxes any more than a table can

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Seriously, they're two entirely different classes of things. One is an inert physical object, the other is a legal instrument that can collect and retain money, and shelter its shareholders and employees from legal and financial outcomes.

If I asked the average person on the street, which of these two things do you think would be more likely to pay taxes, they would look at me like an idiot.

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