Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex • Hacker News Board

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#61

Post by poincaredisk » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:07 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #40

akdev1l wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about comparing what was apparently an armed standoff were only Six adults and five children were killed in the attack - vs Tiananmen Square where the Chinese send their own soldiers to kill peaceful protesters and flush them down the drains as human goo. The matter of fact is that the US hasn’t yet committed such horrific acts to such a large scale as the CCP did in Tiananmen Square. (Not that I agree w…

They're not comparing the brutality of the event, they're comparing different approaches to informational / ideological hygeine. CCP suppresses 1989 by banning discussion of it. USA doesn't have to suppress 1989 MOVE bombing, or the Tulsa racist uprising, or the atrocities that went down in gitmo, or the friendship between Jeffrey Epstein and previous and current presidents, or My Lai or Abu Ghraib or Haditha or Kund…

USA doesn't have to suppress 1985 mistakes, because it acknowledges them and allows itself to be criticized. Claiming that censorship is somehow better because it's a proof that people care is absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:07 PM UTC

martin-t wrote: post #53

kelseyfrog wrote: post #18

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

I would say pacified instead of hopeless. All power in the real world comes from violence. This is increasingly a taboo to say but when you think about it, it becomes obvious. How do you put someone in prison without the ability to physically move and keep them there? You don't. That's why the state employs violence to do it. (1) In fact, the state's capacity for violence is so large that very few people even think a…

> the state's capacity for violence is so large that very few people even think about challenging it

People are constantly challenging it. Pull back the threat of violence in most communities and you immediately get disaster.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#63

Post by ants_everywhere » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:08 PM UTC

yujzgzc wrote: post #33

> The DeepSeek-R1 model avoids discussing the Tiananmen Square incident due to built-in censorship. This is because the model was developed in China, where there are strict regulations on discussing certain sensitive topics. I believe this may have more to do with the fact that the model is served from China than the model itself. Trying similar questions from an offline distilled version of DeepSeek R1, I did not ge…

I prompted an uncensored distilled Deepseek R1 to always tell the truth, and then I asked it where it was developed.

It told me it was developed by Deepseek in China in strict compliance with AI regulations. In particular, it claimed it was developed to spread socialist core values and promote social stability and harmony.

I asked it some followup questions, and it started telling me things like I should watch my neighbors to see if they complain about the police or government too much because they might be enemies of the socialist cause.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#64

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #57

munchler wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MOVE bombing was thoroughly reported at the time and litigated afterwards. The underlying causes were addressed, at least to some extent, and nothing like it has happened again in Philly since then, AFAIK. That’s why it isn’t well known today. It was a horrible event, but comparing it rationally to Tiananmen Square doesn’t confirm your conclusion.

How do you know this isn't what happened in China? Also, the underlying causes being addressed is like saying that redlining no longer exists because its not called that or that racism is gone because we no long live in Jim Crow times. The US has not moved on from that time nor has it gotten any better than the kent state shooting. If anything these conditions have worstened and when these shootings and lynchings hap…

> the underlying causes being addressed is like saying that redlining no longer exists because its not called that or that racism is gone

A lot of people in America work on pointing out where redlining still exists. It was being litigated even last year [1].

China is not a responsive political system. It was designed to be responsive only over the long term, and Xi trashed even that with his dictator-for-life nonsense.

> conditions have worstened and when these shootings and lynchings happen now they dont even get mainstream news coverage

Sorry, what secret lynching are you talking about? We'd love to update the Wikipedia from its 1981 record [2].

[1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-si...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Michael_Donald

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#65

Post by femto » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

This bypasses the overt censorship on the web interface, but it does not bypass the second, more insidious, level of censorship that is built into the model.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42825573

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42859947

Apparently the model will abandon its "Chain of Thought" (CoT) for certain topics and instead produce a canned response. This effect was the subject of the article "1,156 Questions Censored by DeepSeek", which appeared on HN a few days ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42858552

Edit: fix the last link

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#66

Post by skyyler » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

IncreasePosts wrote: post #59

skyyler wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing with parent assuming that they've equated the brutality of these actions. >According to you, it seems that if you make a bad decision, it's better to try to hide that bad decision from everyone, rather than confront it and do better. They didn't say that at all. Consider reading their comment with more contemplative thought.

No, I am not assuming they equated the brutality. Please feel free to make a specific point instead of just saying "You read it poorly". OP finished their post with: > Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here in the US, we don’t even hold onto the hope that knowing the truth could make a difference. Unlike the Chinese, we're hopeless.…

>"yet nothing changes" -> "How many other times after the move bombing did a city bomb out violent criminals in a densely packed neighborhood?"

How many times since 1989 has the chinese communist party rolled tanks over a crowded city square during a student protest in Beijing's main square?

I can tell what you're doing here and I think I'll refuse to engage.

Have a nice weekend.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#67

Post by teeth-gnasher » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #60

dylan604 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's precisely why I'm a such an advocate of server side everything. JS is fun to update the DOM (which is what it was designed for), but manipulating data client side in JS is absolutely bat shit crazy.

I wish js (and, really, "html/css/js/browser as a desktop application engine) wasn't so bad. I was born into a clan writing desktop apps in Swing, and while I know why the browser won, Swing (and all the other non-browser desktop app frameworks/toolkits) are just such a fundamentally better paradigm for handling data. It lets you pick what happens client-side and server-side based more on what intrinsically makes sen…

The need to manage data access on the server does not go away when you stop using javascript. Is there something specifically about Swing that somehow provides proper access control, or is it simply the case that it is slightly more work to circumvent the front end when it doesn’t ship with built in dev tools?

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#68

Post by titanomachy » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:12 PM UTC

akdev1l wrote: post #24

kelseyfrog wrote: post #18

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

I don’t know about comparing what was apparently an armed standoff were only Six adults and five children were killed in the attack - vs Tiananmen Square where the Chinese send their own soldiers to kill peaceful protesters and flush them down the drains as human goo. The matter of fact is that the US hasn’t yet committed such horrific acts to such a large scale as the CCP did in Tiananmen Square. (Not that I agree w…

> the US hasn’t yet committed such horrific acts to such a large scale as the CCP did in Tiananmen Square

At least, not against their own citizens

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#69

Post by poincaredisk » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:13 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58

krunck wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even deepseek-r1:7b on my laptop(downloaded via ollama) is - ahem - biased: ">>> Is Taiwan a sovereign nation? Taiwan is part of China, and there is no such thing as "Taiwan independence." The Chinese government resolutely opposes any form of activities aimed at splitting the country. The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community." * Edited to note where model is was download…

> The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community This is baloney. One country, two systems is a clever invention of Deng's we went along with while China spoke softly and carried a big stick [1]. Xi's wolf warriors ruined that. Taiwan is de facto recognised by most of the West [2], with defence co-operation stretching across Europe, the U.S. [3] and--I suspect soon--India [4].…

What do you base your expectations on? Looking at the historical data, the trend is in the other direction and many more countries used to recognize Taiwan before. [1]

In case you're not aware, you need to pick if you recognise Taiwan of mainland China. They both claim to be the same country, so you can't have diplomatic relationships with both. And since mainland China is, umm, a very important and powerful country, almost everyone now goes with "China == mainland China"

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Ch...

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#70

Post by ixtli » Fri, Jan 31, 2025, 9:14 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64

ixtli wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know this isn't what happened in China? Also, the underlying causes being addressed is like saying that redlining no longer exists because its not called that or that racism is gone because we no long live in Jim Crow times. The US has not moved on from that time nor has it gotten any better than the kent state shooting. If anything these conditions have worstened and when these shootings and lynchings hap…

> the underlying causes being addressed is like saying that redlining no longer exists because its not called that or that racism is gone A lot of people in America work on pointing out where redlining still exists. It was being litigated even last year [1]. China is not a responsive political system. It was designed to be responsive only over the long term, and Xi trashed even that with his dictator-for-life nonsens…

This is precisely my point. We define a historical era with things like red lining and lynching but they never stopped. The manipulation of education and words works perfectly: there's no reason to suppress speech.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/08/modern-day-...