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Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

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Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#61

Post by wrfrmers »

torben-friis wrote: post #4

Apple's adventures in XR are weird. I started my career as a dev working in VR apss. At the time there was consensus in the industry that apple was about to release something huge that would push the whole industry to the mainstream - and indeed you couldn't rely on any new VR/AR product or software without it being silently acquired in months and their website redirecting to apple. Fast forward one decade, nothing's…

Every company in the space realizes that it's the next computer pillar, after desktop PCs and smartphones. Even more so: these devices see everything their users see (and more), hear everything they hear (and more), and can provide significant insight into their mental and emotional states. The prospect of controlling the platform all of this takes place on? No one - especially incumbents that know their history - wants to get left behind. Everyone knows Apple's modus operandi: wait for others to experiment, then define the standard and run away with the market. So, Facebook bought Oculus (and slow-walked its R&D), Google shelved Project Tango, and everyone resolved to wait for Apple to make their move. Apple knew this, and kept pushing back their own reveal. The arrival and demise of upstart Magic Leap (and smaller failures from Vuzix and Snap, among others) confirmed to everyone that there was no point in trying anything until Apple had shown their hand.

So, we've been in a stalemate for more than 10 years. The AVP finally had to come out - antsy investors - and turned out to be the overengineered product of Apple trying to outmaneuver everyone else's outmaneuver, with the entire field understanding that whoever wins this owns the next 20 years.

However, it's a bit of a Chinese finger trap. Consumers and users want actual value out of this technology, and developers want to provide fantastically innovative uses, and both are at odds with the platform owners' lust for unilateral control. The platform that wins will be more like a PC than a Silicon Graphics workstation (which is what Apple et al seem hellbent on forcing down people's throats). Get something with basic functionality that just works out of the box, and that is open and ready for experimentation, into as many hands as possible. It will bulldoze the field. (This is why the Quest line has gotten so close. Shame about the owner.)

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#62

Post by HPsquared »

api wrote: post #13
HPsquared wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still just a bit too clunky, like PDAs. Still waiting for an iPhone moment.

I don't think it's even that. I don't think most people want it. VR is for gaming. I can see it finding a solid niche there. Make a VR headset that connects to a PC/Mac with extremely low latency and focus all the engineering on the quality of the display and making it lightweight. Gamers will buy it. AR is IMHO for industrial uses. I could see it being incredibly valuable doing inspections of industrial systems, wor…

I suppose with everyone on HUDs the subway train would be full of people catatonic staring straight ahead in their own little worlds, possibly recording everything around them on video.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#63

Post by PaulHoule »

hx8 wrote: post #53
PaulHoule wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that's a 'kill your startup' pattern, that is, develop an app for Mac because you're surrounded by Mac users, but then you don't sell many units because the market is too small. I had a time when I was involved with startups of various kinds (sometimes West Coast, sometimes Research Triangle Park, more often NYC or upstate.) I was a Windows user in a MacOS world and the most important accessory I packed w…

I think this might be happening more for iPad Pro style apps than for MacOS style apps now, but the failure pattern of building great software for small market hardware is historic. It was a bigger deal before IBM Compatibility.

My take is that tablets are underrated, however I'd like to see more 'higher end' applications aimed at at 'lower end' tablets.

For me the magic of tablets is that they are low cost, so I'm not afraid of losing or breaking them. They don't become a nexus of further expensive consumption: adding an expensive case, particularly one with a an expensive and special purpose keyboard, just takes something sleek and easy to handle and makes it klunky and awkward.

Go to a hackathon? Get any Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and a $5 plastic clip from Amazon Basics and you've got something sleeker and more stylish than any Macbook or gaming laptop with which you can connect to a powerful desktop computer or a cloud instance that is anywhere from 50 cents to $4 an hour depending on your thirst for power.

I started out with a B&N Nook, then Amazon Fire Tablets (amazing value for the money), then iPads, I had bad luck with my last iPad (either lost or stolen) and figured I'd use an old Samsung Galaxy tablet I had kicking around. Every time I got an iPad I looked at my options, hypothetically I thought I might like the Pro but a new Pro is crazy expensive (I couldn't afford to break or lose it) and an old Pro in my price range is old technology.

(Note I'm a little weird because I've never owned a smartphone with a plan. Carriers choose not to serve my valley, why should I get an expensive plan? My data plan is WiFi, and my phone plan is Skype)

The Pro, like the AVP, also seems hobbled by Apple's short-sightedness. A device that expensive, with hardware as capable, should be able to do 100% of what a MacBook can do. It should be able to completely outdo the Microsoft Surface, but it doesn't.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#64

Post by alchemist1e9 »

weberer wrote: post #21

I feel like whenever the topic of AR glasses come up, these large companies focus too much on cameras. When really, I'd be happy with just a persistent display that can be in my field of vision. A clock, notifications, maybe a map if I'm walking. I've been using the Viture One glasses as an external monitor and they've been great for privacy in public places. You definitely can't walk around with them since the inter…

I’ve purchased and evaluated a number of AR glasses and have come to the conclusion that the Vuzix Z100s are the most practical and functional, I actually wear them pretty often just for the convenience of notifications in my vision, because even watch glancing is distracting in comparison.

other I have are Viture’s, Frame, Everysight, and ActiveLook. All of those have downsides to wearing as glasses over Vuzix’s Z100. People just find you a big big frame geeky and don’t necessarily notice them as smart glasses unless they are particularly observant type.

Everysight Maverick are runner ups and work for summer outdoors situations as they are basically sunglasses.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#65

Post by hx8 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #63
hx8 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this might be happening more for iPad Pro style apps than for MacOS style apps now, but the failure pattern of building great software for small market hardware is historic. It was a bigger deal before IBM Compatibility.

My take is that tablets are underrated, however I'd like to see more 'higher end' applications aimed at at 'lower end' tablets. For me the magic of tablets is that they are low cost, so I'm not afraid of losing or breaking them. They don't become a nexus of further expensive consumption: adding an expensive case, particularly one with a an expensive and special purpose keyboard, just takes something sleek and easy to…

I mostly agree with everything you said. However at this time I wouldn't risk my business by releasing software primarily targeting tablets. The rate that people pay for iPad specific software is too low.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#66

Post by PaulHoule »

hx8 wrote: post #65
PaulHoule wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that tablets are underrated, however I'd like to see more 'higher end' applications aimed at at 'lower end' tablets. For me the magic of tablets is that they are low cost, so I'm not afraid of losing or breaking them. They don't become a nexus of further expensive consumption: adding an expensive case, particularly one with a an expensive and special purpose keyboard, just takes something sleek and easy to…

I mostly agree with everything you said. However at this time I wouldn't risk my business by releasing software primarily targeting tablets. The rate that people pay for iPad specific software is too low.

95% of the development work I've done in the past 25 years has been for the web platform. I don't see that changing. If you make desktop web site that are WCAG AAA compliant they also are great on tablets for XR. (In the limited sense of "windows hang in space that you can use like an app)

I haven't wasted a minute arguing with the app store if I'm allowed to do this or that. For what? So I can add an icon to an over-crowded home screen that is already crowded with twisty little icons that all look alike? So I can spam people with unwanted notifications?

I can even use the web platform to make real immersive applications for XR, though I'm currently trying to figure out the exact memory limits to make things work on the MQ3. I've got a vision in my mind of an app that provides a visually intense and expressive experience on phones but also puts you in a world if you've got the hardware for it. The web platform is totally up to it, I just have to figure out to do it.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#67

Post by phlipski »

wrfrmers wrote: post #61
torben-friis wrote: post #4

Apple's adventures in XR are weird. I started my career as a dev working in VR apss. At the time there was consensus in the industry that apple was about to release something huge that would push the whole industry to the mainstream - and indeed you couldn't rely on any new VR/AR product or software without it being silently acquired in months and their website redirecting to apple. Fast forward one decade, nothing's…

Every company in the space realizes that it's the next computer pillar, after desktop PCs and smartphones. Even more so: these devices see everything their users see (and more), hear everything they hear (and more), and can provide significant insight into their mental and emotional states. The prospect of controlling the platform all of this takes place on? No one - especially incumbents that know their history - wa…

I agree with your sentiments on an open platform ultimately prevailing. The hardware is still not there yet for good AR glasses (IMO). The processing power, connectivity, power, displays, etc.... just can't be crammed into an almost invisible pair of glasses. You basically need to squeeze the equivalent of the latest apple watch into a form factor about the size of a stick of gum (cut in half length wise)....

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#68

Post by talldayo »

matwood wrote: post #31

These stories about unreleased Apple products always make me laugh. It's rumored Apple stops working on something they were rumored to be working on.

Most of them seem to be correct. Apple Car was basically an open secret for years before it was cancelled, same with AirPower and even Apple Vision Pro had it's price estimate leaked before it was announced.

It feels like Apple thinks they're really good at hiding stuff, but forget that their employees love to talk. Nobody will forget the prototype iPhone left just sitting there unattended at a bar.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#69

Post by ghaff »

paxys wrote: post #22
PaulHoule wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is centered around the iPhone, it's hard for them to make anything that isn't a peripheral of it. The best idea they've had in the last ten years is the Apple Watch, but I'm using Garmin because I don't have an iPhone. The Mac benefited from all the work Apple has done on the iPhone CPU, but the software scene on the Mac has been deteriorating because developers are using the same tools and the same toolkits to…

Macs obviously have an outsized mindshare and market share in Silicon Valley but globally make up like 5% of PC sales. In Apple’s own books the entire Mac division accounts for 8% of revenues. Apple is serious about the line, sure, but it doesn’t have anywhere close to the importance of iPhone for the company.

It's not even just SV. Go to pretty much any tech conference. Many of the attendees are not SV and you'd still conclude that Macs were the dominant laptop platform.

Re: Apple Scraps Work on Mac-Connected Augmented Reality Glasses

#70

Post by ghaff »

jnsie wrote: post #28
api wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Vision Pro, and despite being pretty good they were kind of a flop. Like I said elsewhere I think VR and AR are niche products tech companies and investors keep trying to make go mainstream because they showed up in a lot of sci-fi. I don't think many people want them.

If the Vision Pro was indistinguishable from a regular pair of glasses and didn't cost over $1000 it would take over the world. I don't think it's a case that people don't want them, it's more that people want what's in sci-fi you spoke of and not this early iteration.

Yeah (at least maybe). If AR were in a fashionable pair of glasses that you could effortlessly switch into a Google Lens mode for example or call up a Wikipedia article that starts getting interesting. But that's a long way off.
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