Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does the value of a company matter for their bonds? As I understand it, Twitter is breaking even given all expenses, which means that they should not have problems paying back their debt. In which case, the investment seems solid. If we were talking stocks, I would understand it.
If they aren’t growing, and barely breaking even, the chances of going into the red are not low. Idk if the bonds have a rating but I don’t think X would have a AAA rating right now? If it’s really worth 95%, it’s only held up by the political situation and investors’ general Elon bubble.
Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
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Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
They’re saying that the debt is structured with layers (tranches), where the top layers have added protections and get paid back first if there’s trouble, while the “subordinated” layers sit below them in priority. “Extra levels of credit protection” means the tranches being sold to investors have features (e.g., senior ranking, collateral, covenants) that reduce default risk. Banks typically retain the subordinated…
Having flashbacks of The Big Short.
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've wondered about that. Like, what are the practicalities? Do billionaires have dealers, or do they use shell companies to buy in bulk? I'm assuming wherever he flies, he avoids customs and immigration, and his plane/person never gets searched.
If he’s using it he probably just has a prescription or a doctor that provides it to him. Ketamine isn’t all that hard to get prescribed and it is, frankly, a pretty mellow drug.
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#64I wonder who's going to be buying, since they're selling at just a 5% discount. Since the purchase, Twitter has lost 85% to 90% of its revenues. So, I think the discount doesn't factor in just how much value X has lost. And, unless Musk buys back the debt, I don't see any takers lining up. Judging by how much stock Elon had to sell, plus the loans/equity raised for the initial purchase, it feels like an all-round bad…
> it feels like an all-round bad decision. Eh, he bought the White House for $40bn. I say that's a very good purchase, given how he can now leverage it to get better deals for his business. E.g. Greenland for resources to make batteries.
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#65I wonder who's going to be buying, since they're selling at just a 5% discount. Since the purchase, Twitter has lost 85% to 90% of its revenues. So, I think the discount doesn't factor in just how much value X has lost. And, unless Musk buys back the debt, I don't see any takers lining up. Judging by how much stock Elon had to sell, plus the loans/equity raised for the initial purchase, it feels like an all-round bad…
It’s not particularly clear that X played a significant role
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#66Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#67> Morgan Stanley and others, such as Bank of America and Barclays, lent Musk money to complete his $44 billion buyout of X, then known as Twitter, in 2022. Hm. So who owes the debt? What's the collateral? Supposedly Musk bought Twitter personally, but this looks like a leveraged buyout in trouble. The banks involved had a "sell-down letter", an agreement between the lenders that any sell-off gave the other lenders a…
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#68During Musk's acquisition, Twitter officially stated that around 5% of the platform was bots; Musk tried to back out of the deal because he believed the methodology used to get to that number to be bad. On one occasion he stated an estimate of 20%, but said it could be "much higher". Anyone who spends any significant time on X, post acquisition especially, is likely to agree with the "much higher" part of that.
(Remember this: Any time he's on Joe Rogan or talking to anyone who thanks him for his "service to America" by purchasing Twitter: Elon Musk did not want to buy Twitter. He realized it was a bad purchase very quickly, and tried to weasel out of it multiple times. He is a low-intellect coward who makes bad decisions, but he does surround himself with people who can clean up the repercussions of his bad decisions.)
Estimates of how many total active users (humans + bots) are on X vary wildly; Musk has said "600M monthly active" as of May 2024; but as of Oct 2024 SOAX estimated something more like 335M, with 105M in the United States [1]. Depending on what numbers you believe and what percentage you believe to be bots, this means there's anywhere between 10M-80M American Humans logging in to X on a monthly basis. The disparity between this number and the other major social networks is harrowing [2], as is the direction their user count [3] and advertiser count [4] is heading.
The xAI ambitions are also, put simply, bad decision making; which should come as no surprise given Elon Musk is not good at making decisions. AI is commoditized, and the majority of value in that space right now is being created in enterprise B2B, not B2C. xAI has no B2B plan; the combination of ChatGPT, Gemini, and Apple Intelligence rule the B2C zeitgeist, and there's literally nothing differentiating xAI to justify its high price tag. xAI has no integration with the hardware people are buying (until they start shipping it to Teslas; that's when you'll know its over for Musk); nor do they really have control over the software.
The only shred of value X has left is Elon Musk's personal connection to the President; yet he made it 3 days into the new Presidency before publicly ripping apart a major policy objective of the Trump administration; one that is well-aligned with his own business interests, because of a personal feud with Altman [5]. It seems very likely to me that Musk will self-sabotage that relationship within the first year. If the new purchasers of this debt believe they can use it to control him and leverage that relationship, they should be reminded that Tesla tried for years to get control of his Twitter shit-posting, and no one could. He cannot be controlled, and he has a demonstrated and catalogued history of engaging in public self-sabotaging behavior despite good and friendly counsel.
X's bot problem isn't only an issue for its advertisers and revenue; human, American ears listening to the things Musk posts is why the platform has value for Trump.
[1] https://soax.com/research/twitter-active-users?utm_source=ch...
[2] https://datareportal.com/social-media-users
[3] https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-x-declining-user-base...
[4] https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/05/business/advertisers-x-withdr...
[5] https://fortune.com/2025/01/24/donald-trump-sam-altman-opena...
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#69I wonder who's going to be buying, since they're selling at just a 5% discount. Since the purchase, Twitter has lost 85% to 90% of its revenues. So, I think the discount doesn't factor in just how much value X has lost. And, unless Musk buys back the debt, I don't see any takers lining up. Judging by how much stock Elon had to sell, plus the loans/equity raised for the initial purchase, it feels like an all-round bad…
Do you mean from when Musk purchased it?
https://www.businessofapps.com/data/twitter-statistics/
Looking at the revenue growth, does anyone know why it increased in value to the degree it did leading up to its sale? I recall there was some discussion around the amount of bots (not the existence, the degree).
Pre-sale:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2018/04/09/bots-in-the-...
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/04/19/qa-how-pe...
During the process:
https://www.cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/we-checked-elon-m...
I wonder to what degree bots are still influence the platform. For that matter, it would be nice to know how bad the problem is on Reddit.
Re: Wall Street banks prepare to sell up to $3B in X loans next week
#70https://www.wsj.com/tech/elon-musks-twitter-takeover-is-now-...