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PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

hallofdreams.org

61–70 of 165 posts

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#61
post #40

> It had fairly steady growth until 2012, before petering out throughout the 2010s and 2020s in lieu of more centralized sites like StackExchange, and by 2025, only a small community was left This timeline tracks with my own blogging. Google slowly stopped ranking traditional forum posts and blogs as well around that time, regardless of quality, unless it was a “major”. > But, unlike so many other fora from back in t…

> Google slowly stopped ranking traditional forum posts and blogs as well around that time IMO the true inflection point was 2014 when Google first hid (from the UI) and then fully removed (no longer accessible by magic URL) the “Blogs” and especially the “Discussions” filters. Some contemporary discussions on “Discussions”: - https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/23/googles-search-filters-now... - http://googlesystem.blogs…

I recently noticed that there is now a not-visible-by-default “Forums” option in Google Search. It is selected by specifying the query parameter udm=18:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+50g&udm=18

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#62
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, there are solutions. One is a kind of a socialized trust system. I know that Lyn Alden that I follow on Nostr is actually her not only because she says so, but also because a bunch of other people follow her too. There are bot accounts that impersonate her, but it’s easy to block those, a it’s pretty obvious from the follower count. And once you know a public key that Lyn posts under, I’m sure it’s her. She could…

How can ZK approaches prevent people from renting out their human identity to AI slop producers?

By just making it more expensive. We’re never going to get rid of spam fully, but the higher we can raise the costs, the less spam we get.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn’t answer your question directly. So it doesn’t, but makes spam more expensive.

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#63

Something I'm increasingly noticing about LLM-generated content is that...nobody wants it. (I mean "nobody" in the sense of "nobody likes Nickelback". ie, not literally nobody.) If I want to talk to an AI, I can talk to an AI. If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans . I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. I now spend dismayin…

> If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans. I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. This reminds me of the time around ChatGPT 3's release where Hacker News's comments was filled with users saying "Here's what ChatGPT has to say about this"

[flagged]

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#64
post #59

Something I'm increasingly noticing about LLM-generated content is that...nobody wants it. (I mean "nobody" in the sense of "nobody likes Nickelback". ie, not literally nobody.) If I want to talk to an AI, I can talk to an AI. If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans . I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. I now spend dismayin…

I can understand it for AI generated text, but I think there are a lot of people that like AI generated images. Image sites like get a ton of people that like AI generated images. Civitai gets a lot of engagement for AI generated images, but so do many other image sites.

I don’t understand the problem with AI generated images.

(I very much would like any AI generated text to be marked as such, so I can set my trust accordingly)

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#65
post #3

Ooof. The idea--or reality--that humans' accounts would be hijacked by site-owners to make impersonating slop (presumably to bring in ad-revenue) is somehow both infuriating and energy-sapping-depressing. Issues of trust and attribution have always existed for the web, but for many reasons it feels so much worse now --how bad must it get before some kind of sea-change can occur? I'm not sure what the solution would b…

Impersonating somebody to make it look like they said something they didn’t really ought to be considered defamation or something.

Also there’s something really uncomfortable about the phrasing of a lot of those answers. I mean, even as somebody with an engineering degree, I try not to ever answer a question “as a engineer” because when screwing around online I haven’t done the correct amount of analysis to provide answers “as an engineer” ethically (acknowledging the irony of using the phrase here, but, clearly this is not a technical statement so I think it is fine). The bot doesn’t seem to have this compunction.

This ravenprp guy was an engineering student a couple years ago. I guess it’s less of a thing because he wasn’t commenting under his real name. But it seems like this site, given the type of content it hosts, could easily end up impersonating somebody “as an engineer” in the field they work and have a professional reputation in. And the site even has a historical record of them asking and answering questions through their education, so it does a really good job of misleading people into thinking an engineer is answering their questions.

I know the idea of an individual professional reputation has taken a beating in the modern hyper-corporate world. But the more I think of it, the more I think… this seems incredibly shitty and actually borderline dangerous, right?

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online identity verification is the obvious solution, the only problem is that we would lose the last bits of privacy we have on the internet. I guess if everyone was forced to post under our real name and identity, we might treat each other with better etiquette, but...

Optimistically, if all you want to do is prove you are, in fact, a person, and not prove that you are a specific person, there's no real reason to need to lose privacy. A service could vouch that you are a real person, verified on their end, and provide no context to the site owner as to what person you are.

I just want to semi-hijack this thread to note that you can actually peek into the future on this issue, by just looking at the present chess community.

For readers who are not among the cognoscenti on the topic: in 1997 supercomputers started playing chess at around the same level as top grandmasters, and some PCs were also able to be competitive (most notably, Fritz beat Deep Blue in 1995 before the Kasparov games, and Fritz was not a supercomputer). From around 2005, if you were interested in chess, you could have an engine on your computer that was more powerful than either you or your opponent. Since about 2010, there's been a decent online scene of people playing chess.

So the chess world is kinda what the GPT world will be, in maybe 30ish years? (It's hard to compare two different technology growths, but this assumes that they've both hit the end of their "exponential increase" sections at around the same time and then have shifted to "incremental improvements" at around the same rate. This is also assuming that in 5-10 years we'll get to the "Deep Blue defeats Kasparov" thing where transformer-based machine learning will be actually better at answering questions than, say, some university professors.)

The first thing is, proving that someone is a person, in general, is small potatoes. Whatever you do to prove that someone is a real person, they might be farming some or all of their thought process out to GPT.

The community that cares about "interacting with real humans" will be more interested in continuous interactions rather than "post something and see what answers I get," because long latencies are the places where GPT will answer your question and GPT will give you a better answer anyways. So if you care about real humanity, that's gonna be realtime interaction. The chess version is, "it's much harder to cheat at Rapid or Blitz chess."

The second thing is, privacy and nonprivacy coexist. The people who are at the top of their information-spouting games, will deanonymize themselves. Magnus Carlsen just has a profile on chess.com, you can follow his games.

Detection of GPT will look roughly like this: you will be chatting with someone who putatively has a real name and a physics pedigree, and you ask them to answer physics questions, and they appear to have a really vast physics knowledge, but then when you ask them a simple question like "and because the force is larger the accelerations will tend to be larger, right?" they take an unusually long time to say "yep, F = m a, and all that." And that's how you know this person is pasting your questions to a GPT prompt and pasting the answers back at you. This is basically what grandmasters look for when calling out cheating in online chess; on the one hand there's "okay that's just a really risky way to play 4D chess when you have a solid advantage and can just build on it with more normal moves" -- but the chess engine sees 20 moves down the road beyond what any human sees, so it knows that these moves aren't actually risky -- and on the other hand there's "okay there's only one reason you could possibly have played the last Rook move, and it's if the follow up was to take the knight with the bishop, otherwise you're just losing. You foresaw all of this, right?" and yet the "person" is still thinking (because the actual human didn't understand why the computer was making that rook move, and now needs the computer to tell them that the knight has to be taken with the bishop as appropriate follow-up).

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#67

Something I'm increasingly noticing about LLM-generated content is that...nobody wants it. (I mean "nobody" in the sense of "nobody likes Nickelback". ie, not literally nobody.) If I want to talk to an AI, I can talk to an AI. If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans . I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. I now spend dismayin…

nobody wants to see other's ai generated images, but most people around me are drooling about generating stuff

wait for the proof-of-humanity decade where you're paid to be here and slow and flawed

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#68

Something I'm increasingly noticing about LLM-generated content is that...nobody wants it. (I mean "nobody" in the sense of "nobody likes Nickelback". ie, not literally nobody.) If I want to talk to an AI, I can talk to an AI. If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans . I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. I now spend dismayin…

The problem with "provide LLM output as a service," which is more or less the best case scenario for the ChatGPT listicles that clutter my feed, is that if I wanted an LLM result...I could have just asked the LLM. There's maybe a tiny proposition if I didn't have access to a good model, but a static page that takes ten paragraphs to badly answer one question isn't really the form factor anyone prefers; the actual chatbot interface can present the information in the way that works best for me, versus the least common denominator listicle slop that tries to appeal to the widest possible audience.

The other half of the problem is that rephrasing information doesn't actually introduce new information. If I'm looking for the kind of oil to use in my car or the recipe for blueberry muffins, I'm looking for something backed by actual data, to verify that the manufacturer said to use a particular grade of oil or for a recipe that someone has actually baked to verify that the results are as promised. I'm looking for more information than I can get from just reading the sources myself.

Regurgitating text from other data sources mostly doesn't add anything to my life.

Re: PhysicsForums and the Dead Internet Theory

#69
post #38

Something I'm increasingly noticing about LLM-generated content is that...nobody wants it. (I mean "nobody" in the sense of "nobody likes Nickelback". ie, not literally nobody.) If I want to talk to an AI, I can talk to an AI. If I'm reading a blog or a discussion forum, it's because I want to see writing by humans . I don't want to read a wall of copy+pasted LLM slop posted under a human's name. I now spend dismayin…

Yup, I'm the same, and I love my LLMs. They're fun and interesting to talk to and use, but it's obvious to everyone that they're not very reliable. If I think an article is LLM-generated, then the signal I'm getting is that the author is just as clueless as I am, and there's no way I can trust that any of the information is correct.

> but it's obvious to everyone that they're not very reliable.

Hopefully to everyone on HN, but definitely not to everyone on the greater Internet. There are plenty of horror stories of people who apparently 100% blindly trust whatever ChatGPT says.

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