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Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

cnn.com

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Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#61

Post by markessien »

gravitycop wrote: post #60
markessien wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not mean that Zimbabwe does not have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education. Compared to the rest of Africa, the Mugabe government has been pretty good, and it was generally praised a lot till the land redistribution exercise started, after which the media portrayal suddenly swung the other way. Many people who are aware of Zimbabwe only…

Zimbabwe does [...] have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education. Government policy does not corellate at unity with outcome. There are other factors. Would you agree that there is probably a siginificant brain drain occurring right now in Zimbabwe? http://news.google.com/news?q=zimbabwe+%22brain+drain%22 Would a brain drain likely affect the litera…

I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times.

The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people.

I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country?

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#63

Post by gravitycop »

markessien wrote: post #61
gravitycop wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zimbabwe does [...] have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education. Government policy does not corellate at unity with outcome. There are other factors. Would you agree that there is probably a siginificant brain drain occurring right now in Zimbabwe? http://news.google.com/news?q=zimbabwe+%22brain+drain%22 Would a brain drain likely affect the litera…

I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times. The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people. I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying t…

are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country?

Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#64

Post by gravitycop »

markessien wrote: post #61
gravitycop wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zimbabwe does [...] have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education. Government policy does not corellate at unity with outcome. There are other factors. Would you agree that there is probably a siginificant brain drain occurring right now in Zimbabwe? http://news.google.com/news?q=zimbabwe+%22brain+drain%22 Would a brain drain likely affect the litera…

I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times. The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people. I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying t…

Zimbabwe is number one in percentage of total unemployed who have secondary education (85%).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une_wit_sec_edu_mal_of...

The brains have reason to drain.

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#65

Post by markessien »

gravitycop wrote: post #63
markessien wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times. The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people. I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying t…

are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country? Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.

Of 3000 people when the entire population is over 20 million?

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#66

Post by markessien »

gravitycop wrote: post #64
markessien wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times. The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people. I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying t…

Zimbabwe is number one in percentage of total unemployed who have secondary education (85%). http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une_wit_sec_edu_mal_of... The brains have reason to drain.

That could also be because among countries of similar economic status, it has the highest number of secondary educated job searchers.

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#67

Post by gravitycop »

markessien wrote: post #65
gravitycop wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country? Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.

Of 3000 people when the entire population is over 20 million?

the entire population is over 20 million?

Maybe. The World Factbook says it was 11,350,111 last July.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

The Factbook also notes a population growth rate of -0.787% (despite a birth rate more than twice that of the United States), and adds:

there is an increasing flow of Zimbabweans into South Africa and Botswana in search of better economic opportunities (2008 est.)

The Factbook also says of 569,685 refugees (IDPs; Internally Displaced Persons) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... in the country, that they result from:

MUGABE-led political violence, human rights violations, land reform, and economic collapse

Below that, in the (Trafficking in persons) section, it notes:

large scale migration of Zimbabweans to surrounding countries - as they flee a progressively more desperate situation at home - has increased

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#68

Post by gravitycop »

markessien wrote: post #65
gravitycop wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country? Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.

Of 3000 people when the entire population is over 20 million?

Here is more of the story on the Zimbabwe refugee crisis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe#Refugee_crisis

The economic meltdown and repressive political measures in Zimbabwe have led to a flood of refugees into neighbouring countries. An estimated 3.4 million Zimbabweans, a quarter of the population, had fled abroad by mid 2007. Some 3 million of these have gone to South Africa.

Apart from the people who fled into the neighbouring countries, an estimated 570,000 people are displaced within the borders of the country, many of whom remain in transit camps and have limited access to assistance. Most of the displaced have been victims of the Operation Murambatsvina in the year 2005 and continuing evictions and violent farm seizures.

You say only as many as 3,000 of those 4 million refugees were made so by land reform. Where did you get your figure?

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#69

Post by markessien »

gravitycop wrote: post #67
markessien wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of 3000 people when the entire population is over 20 million?

the entire population is over 20 million? Maybe. The World Factbook says it was 11,350,111 last July. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/... The Factbook also notes a population growth rate of -0.787% (despite a birth rate more than twice that of the United States), and adds: there is an increasing flow of Zimbabweans into South Africa and Botswana in search of better economic opportunities (…

This is caused by the economic problems, which came mostly from economic isolation.

Re: Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note

#70

Post by wheels »

markessien wrote: post #59
gravitycop wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_r... Because definitions and data collection methods vary across countries, literacy estimates should be used with caution.

That does not mean that Zimbabwe does not have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education. Compared to the rest of Africa, the Mugabe government has been pretty good, and it was generally praised a lot till the land redistribution exercise started, after which the media portrayal suddenly swung the other way. Many people who are aware of Zimbabwe only…

Mugabe wasn't horrible, and that's what's sad about all of this -- the land reform was a populist grab that was initiated when he started losing his grasp on the country. He's shown over and again that he's willing to put his position above the interests of the country in the last few years, and that's what'll make him go down in history as a despot rather than a hero.

I've got quite a few friends in Zim and spent a few weeks there a bit back. All of the friends that I visited that are under 35 have now left, mostly to South Africa and a few to Botswana. More than a third of Zimbabwe's population has left the country in the last few years. That's far above par for brain-drain.

The coverage in the west is biased, but the fact that people were voting for the MDC, under fear of persecution, which nobody I talked to a year and a half ago when I was there even took seriously, says a lot.

Some of the inflation has been due to external influences, but it's also true that the Zanu-PF leadership let the countries agriculture and industry fall apart. That there's no food now in Zim is nutty.

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