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Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

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61–70 of 87 posts

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#61
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to that argument. However, it doesn't stop there. Violent video games prove contribution to market demand for FPS-style videos of mass shootings or carjackings, so can/should we ban Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto now? (Note that the "market demand" argument is subtly different from the argument that the games directly cause people to become more violent, either in general or by encouraging…

Tell us more about the market that is carrying out mass shootings/carjackings with intent to sell the imagery of it. This is the first I've heard of it. In fact, when mass shootings do occur they are usually explained away for some other reason (e.g. a troubled teen who went off the rails), not that it is the day-to-day operation of a videography business.

They don't have to sell imagery, or intend for it to be publicized, for it to have the effect of driving demand for such imagery.

The link between consumption (without purchase) of CSAM and increased production of CSAM is assumed in the same way, isn't it?

The motives and situational dynamics of pedophiles filming child pornography, and gangs robbing or carjacking people on video in broad daylight, may be different in some ways, but in some ways they're not: both get direct benefit from the crime, regardless of the recordings; in both cases some (small) subset of people interested in watching the recordings may become more inclined to act out what they see, if it aligns with an already existing inclination toward pedophilia or violent crime. That's independent of whether they can make money or become famous for the crime, although money or infamy as additional motive is an additional problem.

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like we should be asking "why is it okay that the people training the models have CSAM?" It's not like it's legal to have, let alone distribute in your for-profit tool.

If you crawl any sufficiently large public collection of images you are bound to download some CSAM images by accident. Filtering out any images of beaten up naked 7 year olds is certainly something you should do. But if you go by the US legal definition of "any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (someone under 18 years of age)" you are going to have a really hard time filtering all of th…

"It's hard" isn't a sufficient reason. Supply chain and infrastructure that makes safe food widely available is hard. We do it anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wrong country. In 2021, a Texas man was sentenced to 40 years in federal prison over CSAM text and drawings - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-man-sentenced-40-years-...

Specifically, this ruling does not make that kind of content illegal. This person was convicted under federal obscenity statues, which are....fuzzy to say the least. As Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart said, it's a "i know it when i see it" thing. Which in effect is basically a "you can go to jail if we think you're too gross" law.

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Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#65
post #30

If it's AI-generated, it is fundamentally not CSAM. The reason we shifted to the terminology "CSAM", away from "child pornography", is specifically to indicate that it is Child Sexual Abuse Material: that is, an actual child was sexually abused to make it. You can call it child porn if you really want, but do not call something that never involved the abuse of a real, living, flesh-and-blood child "CSAM". (Or "CSEM"—…

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Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#67
post #45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a long way of saying “guilty until proven innocent”.

It is, but that's hardly unprecedented for this type of thing. In commercial porn the legal burden is on the producer to prove that their models were adults, not for prosecutors to prove that they were minors.

Ahh did not know. I can see why though.

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? Hard to be mad about the outcome.

Laws like this impede everyone while providing little tangible benefit for actual children. It's silly to imply that generating an image with a model hurts anyone. In general I don't like legislation that tries to criminalize abstract depictions of something that would otherwise be a crime. It's too intangible, and opens the opportunity for abusing the legal system to persecute undesirables. We have to be really care…

I don’t feel remotely impeded by this and neither do most other people. No one needs to generate CSAM.

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#69
post #34
post #30

If it's AI-generated, it is fundamentally not CSAM. The reason we shifted to the terminology "CSAM", away from "child pornography", is specifically to indicate that it is Child Sexual Abuse Material: that is, an actual child was sexually abused to make it. You can call it child porn if you really want, but do not call something that never involved the abuse of a real, living, flesh-and-blood child "CSAM". (Or "CSEM"—…

This is where my technical knowledge of genAI breaks down, but wouldn't an image generator be unable to produce such imagery unless honest-to-god CSAM were used in the training of it?

Not at all. If it's trained with images of children, and images of pornography, it should be pretty easy for it to combine the two.

Re: Under new law, cops bust famous cartoonist for AI-generated CSAM

#70
post #30

If it's AI-generated, it is fundamentally not CSAM. The reason we shifted to the terminology "CSAM", away from "child pornography", is specifically to indicate that it is Child Sexual Abuse Material: that is, an actual child was sexually abused to make it. You can call it child porn if you really want, but do not call something that never involved the abuse of a real, living, flesh-and-blood child "CSAM". (Or "CSEM"—…

I think the one case where I'd disagree is when it's a depiction of an actual person - say, someone creates pornography (be it AI-generated, drawn, CG-animated, etc.) depicting a person who actually exists in the real world, and not just some invented character. That's certainly a case where it'd cross into actual CSAM/CSEM, because despite the child not physically being abused/exploited in the way depicted in the wo…

That would only apply if the child is exposed to it, either directly or indirectly—which, if it's distributed publicly, is a possibility, though far from a certainty.

I would also say that there's enough difference between being sexually abused, in person, and having someone make a fake image of that, that it's at least questionable to apply the term.

I would further note that part of the reason to use the term CSAM is to emphasize that there is an actual child in actual danger that may need help.

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