Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#61

Post by taligent » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 7:39 AM UTC

necubi wrote: post #59

taligent wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also we should point out that Google should NEVER be trusted. Their disgraceful behaviour in blackmailing Microsoft over H.264 FRAND patents is of huge concern to anyone who cares about standards. Companies should be encouraged to get together and define industry standards with fair royalty rates. When that happens we ALL win. Clearly the ITC/EU agree. Hopefully Google will see the error of its ways and change course…

Seriously? Google has owned Motorola Mobility for fewer than two months[0]. And in any case, though it seldom matters to people insistent on seeing the Android manufacturers in a bad light, Microsoft started this war by demanding licensing fees for ridiculous patents, like this one, for "Generating meeting requests and group scheduling from a mobile device"[1]. If you want to talk about bad guys in this mess, it's th…

I fail to see how it matters how long Google has owned Motorola. They are the ones making the decisions.

And this isn't just about Motorola and Microsoft. This is about the principle of ALL contributors to a standard licensing their patents in a fair way. Regardless of whether they are being sued or not or how 'nice' the counter party is.

Do you not understand that if Motorola gets away with this then it will set in a place a precedent for all H.264 patent holders to go after any licensees ? You may not understand the implication but the ITC/EU clearly do.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#62

Post by taligent » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 7:40 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #43

taligent wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also we should point out that Google should NEVER be trusted. Their disgraceful behaviour in blackmailing Microsoft over H.264 FRAND patents is of huge concern to anyone who cares about standards. Companies should be encouraged to get together and define industry standards with fair royalty rates. When that happens we ALL win. Clearly the ITC/EU agree. Hopefully Google will see the error of its ways and change course…

Propaganda is always easier if you fail to mention all the facts. Like the fact that it was Motorola that used their patents to negotiate with Microsoft long before it was acquired by Google. Or the fact that Motorola did it only after Microsoft blackmailed Motorola, using your rhetoric, with their patent portfolio in order to destroy Android not by making better products but by patent bullying.

It is ludicrous for one patent holder of the H.264 patent pool to demand patent royalty rates far beyond the license rate for the entire pool.

It was NEVER a negotiation.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#63

Post by taligent » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 7:42 AM UTC

kkowalczyk wrote: post #42

taligent wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that Apple Island with their industry standard H.264 and AAC files. And Google with their proprietary WebM.

Yes, a completely open-sourced, royalty free and patent-free WebM is "proprietary". Patent-laden format for which you have to pay multi-million royalties is "industry standard".

It is not "patent-free". If it was I am sure Google would indemnify users from patent infringement lawsuits.

Fact is that at least 12 organisations have already said that WebM infringes on their patents.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#64

Post by taligent » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 7:45 AM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #49

taligent wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that Apple Island with their industry standard H.264 and AAC files. And Google with their proprietary WebM.

WebM is not proprietary. It's open source. You can find it here: http://www.webmproject.org/

It IS proprietary.

Google owns WebM and unilaterally makes the decisions about the direction of the format. H.264 is a standard and driven by a standards committee and process comprising numerous companies.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#65

Post by dtf » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 8:01 AM UTC

taligent wrote: post #63

kkowalczyk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a completely open-sourced, royalty free and patent-free WebM is "proprietary". Patent-laden format for which you have to pay multi-million royalties is "industry standard".

It is not "patent-free". If it was I am sure Google would indemnify users from patent infringement lawsuits. Fact is that at least 12 organisations have already said that WebM infringes on their patents.

Is there any open-source, royalty-free technology you can think of that comes with a legal indemnity against patent lawsuits?

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#66

Post by 4ad » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 8:24 AM UTC

Great, when are they going to support FLAC instead of these formats nobody will ever use?

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#67

Post by taligent » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 8:27 AM UTC

dtf wrote: post #65

taligent wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not "patent-free". If it was I am sure Google would indemnify users from patent infringement lawsuits. Fact is that at least 12 organisations have already said that WebM infringes on their patents.

Is there any open-source, royalty-free technology you can think of that comes with a legal indemnity against patent lawsuits?

Many providers of Linux and Java products indemnify their users e.g. RedHat, Novell.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#68

Post by surrealize » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 8:48 AM UTC

taligent wrote: post #64

mtgx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebM is not proprietary. It's open source. You can find it here: http://www.webmproject.org/

It IS proprietary. Google owns WebM and unilaterally makes the decisions about the direction of the format. H.264 is a standard and driven by a standards committee and process comprising numerous companies.

> It IS proprietary.

Also, war is peace, freedom is slavery, and innocence is strength!

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#69

Post by progrock » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:19 AM UTC

taligent wrote: post #62

kkowalczyk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda is always easier if you fail to mention all the facts. Like the fact that it was Motorola that used their patents to negotiate with Microsoft long before it was acquired by Google. Or the fact that Motorola did it only after Microsoft blackmailed Motorola, using your rhetoric, with their patent portfolio in order to destroy Android not by making better products but by patent bullying.

It is ludicrous for one patent holder of the H.264 patent pool to demand patent royalty rates far beyond the license rate for the entire pool. It was NEVER a negotiation.

Certainly good reason to hop onto a free standard.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#70

Post by slowpoke » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:29 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #8

slowpoke wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, according to Wikipedia, Skype holds software patents on parts of the algorithm. Even though they said they'd make them avaiable royalty-free, this still means it isn't completely free.

free_enough + available > completely_free

I vehemently disagree. This is supposed to become an open standard. Open standards must, in my opinion, be completely free. No compromises. No exceptions. No footnotes. No patent bullshit.