I hiked the PCT last year over 85 days and slept on average 5-6 hours a night (except days off) and hiked 30+ miles a day over 16+ hours a day. It's weird the things your body can do if you push yourself beyond the expected norms.
28h Days: year 1 update
61–70 of 134 posts
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to sta…
Do you have any recommended books or links on this topic?
I’d never suggest that people shouldn’t read books or consult experts but.. sleep is probably like diets in that you can read whatever advice you’re looking to find somewhere.
Even after we accept that a dichotomy like typical vs atypical (or night owl vs morning lark; omnivore vs vegetarian) is way too simple.. the more we look the more we keep finding new “types” (like all the flavors of non-24; vegans, paleo, etc). So even reading stuff that’s trying to be rigorous may ultimately just tell you about fads and fashions that might be working for others. Natural variation in people seems to outpace or defy our ability to categorize stuff. To me this hints that there’s really no substitute for experimenting and listening to your body.
The hard part is just that this does require some time and space in your life to accomplish, because if you’re going back to basics about stuff like food or sleep then inevitably it’s going to be disruptive until you figure out what works best.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#63I once changed my schedule for a month to sleeping 4 hours, waking for 4, sleeping 4, and then waking for 12. I would work in the day, come home, sleep 4, wake 4, and then sleep 4 more, then off to work again. On weekends I switched to a normal 16/8 schedule. I got plenty of rest and got all my domestic stuff done overnight - 24h grocery store, laundromat, etc. I was never unusually tired. The down side is that it mo…
There's a very active historical debate about whether a schedule like this, often called "biphasic sleep", was more common in pre-industrial societies. There's a historian called Roger Ekirch who thinks it was, starting in his 2004 book "At Day's Close - Night in Times Past". There's a bunch of criticism of it, since the sources are a bit ambiguous, or if he's generalizing from Medieval England (his main focus).
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#64This flies in the face of circadean rhythm research. I know the human body is extremely adaptable, but imagine making every single day a jet-lagged day. My younger self may have been able to tolerate it well enough, but there's no way I'd come out unscathed now.
I doubt your assertion about circadian rhythm research, largely because of the cave experiments that show that people naturally assume non-24 hour days when removed from sunlight and social cues.
So, in other words, get more sunlight?
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
This isnt scientific but I’ve found that I “feel like” going to bed about 24.5 hours after I went to bed the day before. Without external stimuli, it’s very hard to avoid drifting into staying up very late at night for me.
This sounds suspiciously like “I tend to stay up later and later every night unless I force myself to go to bed on time” — which I suspect is pretty common, it certainly is for me. I’ll start staying up till 3, 4, 5, or later if I’m not on a schedule. Having kids helps.
It is suspiciously similar because they are the same exact thing. The whole premise is how many hours is a comfortable wake-sleep cycle.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#66See also these internet-historical gems from everything2: Uberman's sleep schedule - every 4 hours, sleep 20 minutes. https://everything2.com/title/Uberman%2527s+Sleep+Schedule Everyman sleep schedule - per above, with an additional 3-hour nap each 24 hours. https://everything2.com/title/Everyman+Sleep+Schedule Of course, the surest way to experiment with an alternative sleep schedule is to simply take care of a newb…
Yep, I remember reading about these as a youth and thinking, wow what a random bit of biology. Then I had a kid and was like, oh, I see why this is in there.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
This sounds suspiciously like “I tend to stay up later and later every night unless I force myself to go to bed on time” — which I suspect is pretty common, it certainly is for me. I’ll start staying up till 3, 4, 5, or later if I’m not on a schedule. Having kids helps.
It is suspiciously similar because they are the same exact thing. The whole premise is how many hours is a comfortable wake-sleep cycle.
I don't think so actually. If you can "make yourself" go to bed at a "normal time" then you don't have non-24.
People with non-24 usually have a longer than 24-hour cycle and can't "make themselves" go to sleep consistently at the same time (people with 24.5 or 25-hour days probably have some success with this though because if they stay up a bit later one day and still wake up at the same time, then by the time a proper bedtime rolls around they'll be close enough to their the sleep phase of their cycle, and tired enough to fall asleep at that time)
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you figure out your cycle time?
If you are able to make relatively few commitments for a month, go to sleep when you feel tired. Sleep as much as feels good. Track it in a spreadsheet. Some people with non-24 have very regular sleep/wake cycles. I'm not as fortunate, but in the winter will tend towards 24-29 hour days, with an average just over 27 (perhaps this winter has even been a little under 27 as I've been more physically active) In the summe…
Interesting I’ll have to track it a bit. I’ve always adjusted a bit in winter but never thought to measure / optimize it.
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#69Isn't this basically a curious way to stay away from people a bit more?
Re: 28h Days: year 1 update
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
The greatest benefit is that you can stay up until you're absolutely dog-tired every day, and not have to worry about all the rituals of "sleep hygiene", like limiting screen time, dimming lights, no coffee, etc. On a >24 hour sleep schedule, you _will_ be tired when it's time to sleep. Guaranteed. Not only that, you can sleep longer and will always feel well-rested. Meeting people all around the world, when they're…
You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to sta…
Data point: I found mine to be between 25 and 26 hours.
Probably a contributing factor to difficulty in getting to sleep "at a good hour".
OTOH mild sleep deprivation has been shown to counter depression, so there's that.